What SHOULD Be Done About the Mortgage/Wall St. Crisis?
We spent a couple hours on the air today talking about where the problems are rooted, but it’s decidedly harder to decide what to do than to decide who is at fault. So now that we’ve pointed some blame, can we point out solutions? I have not found any ideas that thrill me in particular. Here are a few that don’t seem entirely stupid, but I’d love to hear yours (or have you link to alternatives).
I’ll kick it off with a reference to one of the few people who said this crisis was coming way back when (as mentioned in a previous post). Dean Baker offers several “progressive conditions for a bailout,” which I find a little weak and watered down, ut which are probably more severe than anything our Congressional representatives will come up with.
This blogger whose work I’m not otherwise familiar with seems to think we should be letting the government handle credit, since Wall Street just proved itself entirely incapable:
The U.S. government is now the ultimate home mortgage lender, and consequently mortgage rates have fallen. The government has lending facilities for student loans, farm loans, small business loans, and myriad others. The task now is to pick up the pace. The Treasury and the Federal Reserve have been quite creative in setting up new lending facilities for the benefit of investment banks and broker-dealers. How about a lending facility for businesses to replace the commercial paper market? How about a lending facility for consumers to ease the pinch from credit card debt?
Here’s a quick analysis of the proposed plan as it stood this morning. Details always changing, but the important thing is, we should see some details before our rulers move forward on it, no?
Paul Krugman offers a pretty moderate view of the bailout, but he makes some critical points that everyone should understand:
And if the government is going to provide capital to financial firms, it should get what people who provide capital are entitled to — a share in ownership, so that all the gains if the rescue plan works don’t go to the people who made the mess in the first place.
These recommendations that economist Robin Hahnel referred to on the show the other day deserve another look, though once again I think they’re really bland. Maybe I’ll write my own ideas down soon so you all can thrash them. For now, I’ll let you all go at it over these proposals, or offer your own, in the comments.
Oh, and here’s an article on the credit default swaps that one caller brought up. They’re not super hard to understand, but they’re difficult to explain. This article does a decent job. These instruments constitute one of the major variables in this whole crisis, which is why I was saying news on just how bad off they are may be the next wave of the catastrophe
Last but not least, please enjoy this important message of peace from the Techno Viking…
Okay, I will say that Finance is my strong suit so let’s begin here.
Who I blame:
1. The people who used their houses as giant atms. Those who have re-fi’d 3 or more times in the past 5 years to pay off debt should be forced to pay their own debts back.
2. The firms. Many of them had good underwriting standards given to them by their investor to follow (the investors were the ones buying them back in “blocks”). They simply waived certain stipulations, like verifying income or assets. Or allowing exceptions like Debt-To-Income (DTI) to be over the investors max.
3. Anyone who knowingly misled you. I hate douchebags.
4. You. I am sorry, if you honestly believed that home prices could continue to grow 20% per year while incomes only go up ~5%, you need your head examined. If it took a goofy crazy stupid lame loan to get you into a house and could only afford the payment prior to adjustment, and it WAS disclosed to you…. well, you get the picture.
Who I don’t blame:
1. The president. He should only be blamed for not attacking this issue sooner and hoping that it wouldn’t blow up in his face.
2. Fannie and Freddie (NOT including the FHA problem). Guys, Fannie and Freddie are best known for the “conforming mortgage”. You needed 20% down. These loans have historically been considered safe investments.
3. I don’t blame the investment companies. I want them to fail and not get a bailout. Keep in mind, many international firms also invested heavily in this as well and we aren’t helping them either. Bailouts should NEVER EVER be used as a tool to post-regulate any instiution or business type. They did tell most lenders how they want loans underwritten. When the loans started going bad, the investors did look at the bad loans and found the blatant disregard for their required guidelines try to force the lenders to buy them back. Too bad the lenders had already field bankruptcy. Look at this website: mortgageimplode.com
Side Note:
You are the tool if you get into a loan with a balloon payment, a reverse mortgage, an option arm, or a 2/1 arm where the rate is going to jump a ton in only 2 years.
If you want honest, impartial advice about any upcoming financial transaction, please contact me and I will give it to you free of charge.
John from Cleveland Reply:
September 25th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Something I forgot to add:
I REALLY blame the ease of credit for rapidly appreciating homes.
Follow the logic here. Starting ~40 years ago, women entered the workforce increasing household income. Home values increased because people could afford more and many “moved on up”. Enter the 1990s… getting a home loan was made much easier. Surprise, people “moved on up” again. Now in the 2000s, people still wanted to keep moving on up but had to get a goofy loan to qualify for the new house. What a shocker that they couldn’t afford it.
The same thing exists with student lending. When the government made it easy for almost anyone to get a student loan, tuition costs RAPIDLY increased. They continue to do so today.
I’d like to say that schools are cashing in on the same trend here and they know it.
Do you see a pattern here?
robert in tulsa Reply:
September 27th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
these are very a good opinions, I feel the same about vehicle sales.
John from Cleveland Reply:
September 27th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Don’t get me started there (non-prime auto lending is what I do for a living)
1. 1999, I had a great credit score but limited credit. I was buying a NEW car at EMPLOYEE price with $2000 cash down not including rebates. I got a 60 month loan (max term) at 5.9% (a PROMOTIONAL rate at the time)… I failed to mention I needed a cosigner. They also nitpicked all my personal information to DEATH!
2. 2007, Citibank would allow the following: 75 month loan on a USED car up to 65,000 miles with NEGATIVE EQUITY (125% max wholesale + tax, tag, title). The kicker is that they’d give this loan to someone with a 560 credit score and no cosigner.
^^^^^^^^^^
See above to understand why the financial world is all jacked up. STOOOPID lending.
Steve, jasper Reply:
September 27th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
I’m amazed at the size of the houses people “think” they need nowadays!
My wife and I live in a very modest sized dwelling and are shocked when we drive through the burbs.
Seems like folks aren’t happy with just what is needed anymore.
Everyone has to have the marble kitchen tops and three car garage.
I personally don’t think anyone making $250K plus net is middle class but many are trying to live like they make that much.
Folks on the east and west coasts may disagree but they are not the norm.
Mosquito Dan's Alias Reply:
September 29th, 2008 at 2:36 am
Pete dominick is a f-ing a-hole. Playing the race card before the election even goes down in history. I was listening to the replay and pete said paraphrasing, ” Well if barack o-sham-job loses by 100,000 votes. well we can all agree there is a 100,000 white racists in this country”
The inference would be barack lost due to these 100,000 white racist votes. It couldn’t be barack’s severe anti-gun, anti-self defense, pro income taxation, pro carbon taxation/cap and trade(which is a hidden tax). Obama couldn’t lose because of his policy positions, NO WAY! Your brother is wrong, communism is when production is fully controlled by the govt.
Socialism is the middle-ground between capitilism and communism. There is different grades and shades of socialism.
I went to youtube.com and i typed, “dannyamericanow” in the video search box , all one word, scroll down to favorites, click “see all”, multiple pages of favorites, page controls at the bottom of each 20 favorites pages, and all i got was this stinkin’ T. TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
dannyamericanow
Tessa from WV Reply:
December 20th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
just to note dan, mccain also supported cap and trade systems…why is it republicans try to use that against obama when thier candidate said he supported it…ON HIS WEBSITE…..do some damn research people…
also, socialism is not a middle ground of communism and capitolism
communism is supposed to me a “means to an end” in theory…it forces people under a totalitarian governement into “utopian society” by regulating all forms of production and life, requiring work by thier ability and good by thier needs…after which the state is supposed to “wither away” as it is supposed to become unneccary…this is in theory…in practice..it never moves to the second stage.
socialism, however, is cohabitation without use of force. it is simply the public choosing to provide for the public
he ends are the same, it is the means, whether through peace or through force that separates the two
facism is on the opposite side of communism, and capitolism is between facism and the middle
just thought i’d correct you on those points.
also…i’d like to point out that none of these words are forms of government, they are ideals that governments follow.
I just wanna puke!
The government since Ronald Regan is to blame with all their free market and deregulation!
Now the government is going to save us.
I’m cynical and mad as hell!
Free for all Capitalism is just as bad as free for all Socialism!
Organizations, corporations, churches, clubs, military, any group of people that get together for a purpose can be corrupted!
We are idiots for thinking there should be no controls!
Abe is right. Bernie is a socialist and goes with the democrats. Lieberman will always sell out his old party to suck up to the republicans(play both sides). Pelosi should have never claimed victory. It was my assumption that bernie made 51.
I made a mistake and i admit it. I still think b obama and dem congress is a mistake. IMO, 58 senate seats for the dems and mccain presidency would balance the spending. If a ship is going right for a long time you don’t take a huge swing left. Biden is a huge scumbag and is almost unnoticed
FYI: excerpt from polito article:
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said in an interview aired Tuesday that the cost of the mortgage bailout plan may rein in his ambitious plans for health care, energy, education and infrastructure.(whole story below)
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13779.html
If this is the case what is the dif between b obama and mccain. When politicians say they are going to put something off for a while, what is the translation?
Here is an interesting excerpt from an obama interview. What does “price permits so that it has much of the same effect as a carbon tax”. What does “price permits so that” mean. More or Less? Remember, you as a consumer will pay for the permits.
***B obama:So as I roll out my proposals for a cap-and-trade system, I will price permits so that it has much of the same effect as a carbon tax. **** grist.org
http://grist.org/feature/2007/07/30/obama/
This is where B Obama will get his money for social spending, he is not worried about how the mortgage situation will affect his big spending desires.
Barack Obama is also very anti-gun and supports a national ban on concealed carry even if the state has concealed carry permits. What if mccain called for a national ban on abortions? He supported the d.c. gun ban before he was against the d.c. gun ban.
mosquito dan
dannyamericanow
Mosquito Dan Reply:
September 25th, 2008 at 1:03 am
Correction: Barack Obama supported the d.c. gun ban before he was against the d.c. gun ban. Mccain was always against the d.c. gun ban. The d.c. gun ban also include a provision that outlawed someone from protecting their house with a gun. The law stated if you had a gun(shotgun/rifle) in your house it had to be unloaded, disassembled or locked-up, ammo stored seperately. This provision made it impossible for you to defend your house in case of a break-in. You can’t just run to your closet or safe, put your gun back together, get your ammo from a different place, load the gun, and then tell the robber, “get out of my house”. That scenario is not very practical. That is one of the most under-reported provision of the d.c. gun ban. Barack obama does not believe a citizen of the united states has a right to defend him/herself, with a gun, in his/her home. The secret service always has a right to defend obama.
Barack Obama supported the d.c. gun ban before he was against the d.c. gun ban. Mccain was always against the d.c. gun ban. the d.c. gun ban included a provision that banned the use of any gun for self-defense in the home. In other words, if you shot somebody in self-defense,with a shotgun, in your house you could be charged with a crime. shotguns and rifles are permitted and legal in d.c.
Good to see the “fuck the little guy” attitude is alive and well. What would our country be without it?
(Answer: Remotely decent.)
Without getting into grave detail here. Unfortunately I think the bailout is nessecary. Not doing so could cause a tremendous freeze on loans and punishes those who didn’t take great risks a few years back. I didn’t buy a house because I knew I couldn’t afford it and don’t buy into these get rich quick schemes. I believe you buy a house to live in the rest of your life. Now My girlfriend and I are forced to have a huge down payment if we even wanted to remotely think about buying a house. On the other hand those in charge who screwed with the system in the first place should not be rewarded. More or less I’m saying it should be helped to stay afloat but not bailed out.
I wish people would stop blaming folks who didn’t pay their mortgage for this current crisis. The truth is those people make up less than one percent of this problem which was an Asset Bubble based on derivatives. The only thing the mortgage crisis did was draw attention to the fact that all these assets the banks/speculation firms had were complete garbage. Blaming the home owners is like blaming a car owner for bringing down the dealership after he pointed out all their cars are lemons. Well.. Sorta maybe. Can anyone think of a better analogy?
Solution: Pour yourself a stiff drink and smoke’em if you got’em.
does anyone else think that have a national currency backed by something (lets say gold) and strict regulations concerning credit in all forms is the solution to this? this whole problem began when we as a nation stopped holding our representatives accountable. now we are ruled by a group of corrupt elitists, they are democrats and republicans. there is no difference between them. when will we wake up and abandon the parties that don’t care for us much less about us.
Rob in NV Reply:
September 26th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
and yes i’ll be voting third party
even if its for lobster man
and the crustacean liberation party
anything is better than the douches we have
Scott the Trucker Reply:
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
From what I understand our currency is backed by gold. I may be wrong, but from what I have heard our currency can not exceed our gold value, thats why our government can’t turn to the federal reserve for cash. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. But from what I remember this is the reason for such bills as silver certificates.
Tessa from WV Reply:
December 20th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
no, scott, our currency in not backed by gold, or any precious material any longer. in 1934 congress enacted a law that prevented amounts over $5 from being exchanged for gold, and in 1963 $1 and more for silver. since the mid 1960s our silver coins were replaces by non-precious metals such as zinc, copper, and nickel.
so thus, we had commodity money until 1934 (backed by gold/silver) bt since then we have moved to fiat money, which is not backed by anything other than the value we put on it. should the american public or foriegn market lose faith in the dollar, it will have no value. look at a dollar bill, it says “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private” it says nowhere on the bill or coin that it can be turned in for gold or silver. our money is only good because the government says it is good.
BTW: Why hasn’t the media picked up on McCain’s question to Barack about what the income cutoff for middle class is?
I think this point really needs to be addressed.
The country has become very polarized and regionalized with regards to income. What is a good living wage in one part of the country is not so good in another.
I don’t think Americans have any empathy for people in other parts of the country other than their own little corner of the world.
I say fuck um. If your going to gamble on wall street your either going to win or going to lose, either one you get, it was you who got yourself to that point. When you win, you don’t share the winnings, so when you lose why should we as tax payers have to share with you?
As for the sub-prime issues. I think if your a banker who got greedy and said to a guy like me who makes $40,000/year that I can afford even a $100,000.00 home should be imprisoned. I went to my credit union for a preapproval and they were stuck on 40% as in your not getting approved for more then 40% of your earnings. Which was approximitly a $75,000.00 home loan. Guess who still doesn’t own a home….this guy. And for all of you who got into this mix when the finacial proffesionals told you “you can afford it(wink, wink)” maybe we should allow you to renegotiate your home loan at about 8% fix rate. Why 8% when my credit union just told me I was approved at 6.25% and nothing down. Well, a little higher rate to help the market and to teach you a lesson!
It was brought up to me by my brother who said, can you imagine the feds allowing these people to refinance? Most these people who got foreclosed on probably trashed their homes on the way out. They probably put “Great Stuff” down the toilet, smasked walls while they moved out, dropped rocks down the disposal, cut power and so on. I say AWESOME! These are the people we need to allow a re-fi for. Could you see the economy getting rebuilt when these dingbats need to hire proffesionals to fix their mistakes?
Bottom line, when I go to the casino (the last time that happened I went in with $20.00 only and that was about two years ago) anyways, when that happens, if I lose my money, its my losses, I don’t ask the casino to repay me. And when I win, I definitly don’t put it back into the casino either.
It seems like America is the only country, I could be wrong, that says “Government, stay out of our lives, mind your own business” then when things go bad they suddenly change, “Oh, please government, help us out we lost everything”. Sorry, folks, can’t have it both ways.
P.S. Big Brother, thanks for the video clip of the flaming gay dancing viking, thats 4:01 I’ll never get back. Also, how does someone post a link within some random word???
Big Brother Reply:
September 28th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I love the Technoviking. Not sure how you figured out he is gay. I guess that means some gay guy could kick your ass, eh?
If you want to link a word to another web page, do this:
<a href="http://theurl.com/path/file">The Word</a> — just change http://theurl.com/path/file to the actual web address you want to link to, and The Word will get linked to that. Make sense?
Big Brother Reply:
September 28th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Or just use a full URL like I did above with and the URL will get turned into a link to itself.
Scott the Trucker Reply:
September 30th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
I never said a gay couldn’t kick my ass, it’s not gay people I don’t like, it’s the concept of being gay….does that make any sense??? Either way I got that idea from the way he was dancing like a fruit cake. Hey, ask Michael Billy, he may know!
Big Brother Reply:
September 30th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Hey did you see my link instructions above, Scott? They disappeared on me because my own damn comment got caught in the spam filter. Starting to think that thing is a little overzealous.
I didn’t know there was a gay way to dance. I think if you were gay, you would love it. But I don’t think you’d want to get in the sack with the Technoviking. Look at the way he thrusts…
Scott the Trucker Reply:
September 30th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
I did figure out the “link” that you so kindly explained to me, after all that myspace crap I go through I should have known the “” played an important role.
Also, I have no intention on getting into the sack with , technohomo frankly his thrust scare the hell out of me and only the brave know what hes capable of, and please click the link above, it is HI-LAR-E-US! he did by the way scare off the scum bag who pushed the hippie chick, which was noble!
Scott the Trucker Reply:
September 30th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
It kinda worked, its a good start anyways!!
Scott the Trucker Reply:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:01 am
I like how this Viking guy is the leader, when he dances the whole crowd dances and when he stops they all stop! He should lead the Verizon movement and make the commercials more interesting!
Scott the Trucker Reply:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:23 am
Your filter is kicking my ass Brian!! The link kinda worked! I really like how the viking is leading the group! He should lead the Verizon commercial, make it real interesting!!!
How can you start an answer with the word “or” I’m still confused!
ok, i just read all these threads and it seems like the common denominator in them is…’credit’… houses, cars, student loans. i know that most people can’t afford to pay cash for those things (i sure as hell can’t), but as long as our whole economy is based on buying, on credit, what we can’t afford to pay for, this will be a continuing problem and there will always be someone there to ‘help us along’ so they can get their share of our money. the problem is the entire credit system that has people living way above their means (sorry if that sounds insulting to some people, but if you had to do without any credit at all, how well would you manage, cause those days may be a comin’)
We might as well just make sure this bail out does not pass. As Far as I am concerned we would be much better off just letting these companies go under. The economy will benefit better that way. With the government printing out more and more money to pay for this bail out inflation goes up more then ever. Wall Street will recover in a few years and the prices go back down and we can afford to live again. So as far as I am concerned we need to be lobbying against this bail out.
If you had competent call screeners, I could get my comments heard
Scott the Trucker Reply:
September 30th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Pete has a very competent call screener, it’s just too bad that the call screener won’t plan Pete’s day or conversation around you. But hey, here we are on Pete’s Big Blog, rather then cry about not being heard…be heard. And for future reference, if your going start out whinning and bashing people, theres a good chance, you won’t be heard.
“What SHOULD Be Done About the Mortgage/Wall St. Crisis?”
Just want to point out that people here, and in general seem to be drawn to problems instead of solutions.
The topic clearly is asking for your solutions and the majority of posts are straight up bitching.
We all know there are plenty of problems, but if all you are going to do is complain about them then my humble opinion is that you commit to silence.
MY SOLUTION:
My solution would be that the government does nothing about this. No bail out. We dont need to take tax payers money and spend it on something of this nature. We could spend it on much better things like education, health care, and our infrastructure. Note that I dont think we should give more power to the government, but redistribute it back into the hands of the people. We are holding on to a thread if that…
Another part of my solution is we remind people about nature, survival, and wildlife. You dont need anything aside from food, shelter, water, and love. Everything else is a luxury. If you think you deserve more then that you are greedy and lack appreciation for what you have. I would bet most of us have a whole lot more than that. Lets be thankful for it. Go camping for a week, maybe it will sink in.
Life is not a right, its a privilege in the sense that you earn it through making the right choices, following your instincts, and following the path that leads to survival. Sometimes it is sheer luck. We’ll live.
Peace.
-Nate from Minnesota
Scott the Trucker Reply:
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Nate, I previous comment of mine did offer a solution, if its works is one thing! But it did offer a solution, I can’t deny your solution but I need to bring up the fact that I did offer one as well.
I also offered the solution of leave it alone dont help the big banks. if they go under so be it. And another thing. That may also help the economy. All those houses that those banks own if they go under should be given to the people who are paying on those mortgages. I honestly think if that bill gets dropped then they will spend more money else where and be able to put their kids through college and what not. Just my idea. Not that this country would ever give anything away for free.
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well, after the mile of spam messages here at the bottom….damn people
anyway, here is my solution…let the fed do what they are supposed to and limit the money supply, that is why we put them there, but the govt. want to take over thier responsibilities and expand the supply, or force them to do so for that matter.
how about this…let them reduce the available credit, if you dont have any money, keep what you have, or fix it up, or save up for what you need, or do some extra work to get it.
or, go to somewhere that you dont need credit for…liek the rental stores..yeah youll pay more, but oh f’ing well.
when the govt. pushes the money supply up, it increases the inflation rate up, with equals a lower standard of living, which means people will not buy luxury goods because they can only afford neccessity items, also this means that they are less likely to hold dtores of savings, which means that banks are holding less deposits, which means they can loan less out…which mean…dah dah dah….no credit…
stop the cycle, let the fed do thier job.
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