Weekend Open Thread
Okay, all you PBM junkies out there, if you can’t wait for Monday’s show, feel free to post some topic ideas and get a discussion going here. Let’s please just keep the comments substantive and civil. Other than that, anything goes.
???
Okay, I will start something for everyone to write about.
I have noticed that many people that call in seem to be undereducated. Sure, the subscriber base of Sirius is mainly people that drive constantly (ahem, truckers), but I really expected more out of them. Anyways, let’s talk about oil.
I can not believe that you people are really blaming the president for oil prices. We still have some of the cheapest gasoline and diesel in the world. We haven’t raised taxes (unless your state/city has). We are getting a majroity of our oil from overseas and we don’t set the price. Generally, OPEC has us by the balls and they are squeezing us right now. If we want to get pissy, get mad at Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Venezuela, Ecuador, Saudi Arabia, Angola, Libya, Algeria, Nigeria, Qatar, and the UAE. Hell in Dubai, they built a gigantic indoor skiing operation.
Oil companies are making record profits, but keep in mind that they work on a percentage basis. Their profit margin is about 8%. 8% of $1 is $0.08. If gas is up to $4 then they make about $0.32 per gallon. They could cut their profits right out and we would not see a big change at the pump. If you want to berate a certain industry, banks and pharmacuticals have huge profit margins. Heck, that patio furniture on your deck has about a 100% markup from what the store bought it for.
I worked at a station and our profit (it wasn’t a corporate owned store) was only $0.06 per gallon. If ONE person drove off without paying for gas, it threw off the whole the day.
In summation, our oil companies mainly (I know some have moderately-sized production operations) get oil from a foreign source and refine it for sale. Because the President made money off of that part, he shouldn’t be demonized. We, as a society, continued to use more and more gasoline. If any of you who didn’t spend all of your money on things you didn’t need (see other posts of mine) and invested in oil futures two years ago, you’d have made a killing. What did you expect a Texas governor to be involved with anyways, corn? timber?
If you REALLY want to get mad, go ask the head honcho, Clinton, why we never expanded our natural gad mining/refining operations throughout the 90s. This is why our heating costs went through the roof.
-John from Cleveland
F’ing snob.
You start by insulting a whole class of listeners or making bold assumptions about how or if they are educated.
The rest about oil was pretty good tho.
Then you bash again - why?
Ant
ps, why ruin your good arguments by being such an azz
John’s assertion about the education level of the average caller, while potentially insulting, is an observable matter of fact. I listen to the show ~3 days a week on my way to a consulting gig I have in SF, and I call at least one of those days (Gene from cali), just to skew the metrics slightly.
The callers all mean well, but generally none of them know what they’re talking about and even the ones that come armed with some trivial basis in historical fact have a VERY hard time making any sort of logical conclusions.
Take, for example, John’s statement above, attempting to absolve Bush of his incompetent leadership as it pertains to gas prices and reaching back to clinton to blame him for his various failures.
The point isn’t to “demonize” someone. That’s the thing that the general public doesn’t get because all they’ve heard for years and years (at least on TV and Radio) is people pointing fingers and labeling each other.
The oil companies are in cahoots (and always have been) to rape you. That’s their business model. I don’t have the time or energy to educate you on the history of the oil industry but I promise you that it is filled to the brim with international espionage and corruption. If you argue that this is all in the past and that modern CEOs are not guilty of the kind of shit that their predecessors did 30, 60, 90 years ago, then you are naive, and there are some really good, albeit somewhat unkown reporters out there who have evidence to prove you wrong.
Bush is an inside man, and Cheney ever more so. Do you remember him saying that alternative energy policy is a pipe dream? I can dig up the quote for you, it was right after that secret meeting he had where all his corporate buddies were invited to advise them on how to craft their energy policy.
His dick is unlubed and it is WAAY up in your ass and you sit around looking for ways to blame Clinton (who is also guilty of many many wrongs, but on at least THIS front, has nothing to answer for because he is a life long politician and doesn’t have DIRECTLY conflicting interest on things like energy policy).
But I don’t want to get into a pissing match about who is guilty of what… I’m just saying that while we argue about which side is right this nation is collapsing and I don’t know about you, John, but I don’t have an escape pod or a mansion in the Bahamas to which to flee when our economy totally collapses, so, I’m not clear on how you justify this sort of bickering if you consider yourself educated. The solutions are NOT simple and the people to blame run the spectrum of politics and industry and they do NOT have your best interest at heart, so please stop defending them because while you’re doing so they’re fucking us both!
Also, I insulted the average caller and not the average listener. I agree that they have wonderful intentions. There is no doubt about that. Honestly, I was just trying to stir up some conflict to get people to respond.
Dre I do disagree with you that we really have a hand in controlling the price of oil. OPEC decides how much to produce at their semi-annual meetings. What we mainly do with the oil is refine it. Heck Venezuela who threatens us with an embargo has no other nation that can refine its poor quality crude. ON THE OTHER HAND…
Our government has been leaning on Saudi Arabia as our mouth in their meetings. This relationship is about the biggest hypocrisy I have ever seen. Bush 1 started it and the following two have perpetuated that relationship. While we say that we need democracy in the middle east we are befriending nations that force women to cover up and always sit in the back seat of their car….. A nation where a rape victim is given greater punishments than the attackers because she was “out” without her husband…
Concerning profit margins, I am citing http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html. They are comparing many of the companies that you and I hold near and dear. Citigroup had the highest profit margin at 33%, Microsoft second at 32%, Coca Cola was third at 21%. The highest oil company was ExxonMobil at 11%. Ironically at the bottom of the list was Wal Mart at 4% who I feel has done much more harm than almost any other company.
I agree with Dr. Dre about the assumptions of the economy. I COMPLETELY disagree that it is Big Oils fault though. I think that the biggest devil here is our financial institutions. They over lent money for the past 20 years through credit cards, unsecured loans, mortgages, extended term car loans. We have allowed ourselves to get beyond capitalist and into a consumerist economy. With our negative savings rate, it is only a matter of time before the whole system collapses in an on itself.
I just find it unfair that we are blaming oil companies here instead of those nations that are taking advantage of our dependence on it by cashing in on us all.
Quote from the Dr:
“so they’re fucking us both”
Everyone is out to make a buck.
Many industries seek to maximize their postions - from pharma, agriculture, auto, unions etc.
Why demonize the oil companies. I mean we the ones that jump in our big SUVs and sports cars and run to the mall or the game. No one’s forcing us.
Ant
ps, I dropped out after the 8th grade so excuse my ignorance and inability to follow some you educated guys thoughts and arguments
Concerning the history of Oil, I am well versed. I got my undergraduate degree from a school just about 20 miles from Oil City, PA where the first people got oil from the ground and where it was refined into kerosene for the first time on a massive scale.
Also, I am from Cleveland of all places. Since you obviously didn’t make that point out, shall we discuss Standard Oil and John D. Rockefeller?
While I do not like our current Commander in Chief, how can we say that it is his fault the price of oil went up? People here were the ones buying oil futures like mad. Our refining capacity is still above what we consume.
Take a quick read about supply chain management. What our companies mainly control is what is called “down stream” They handle most of the entire chain with the exception of the raw resources. If you are going to claim that Shell or Exxon is in cahoots with Saudi Arabia to withhold Oil shipments, please site a source. It would change my view of the situation.
“I think that the biggest devil here is our financial institutions. They over lent money for the past 20 years through credit cards, unsecured loans, mortgages, extended term car loans.”
Who borrowed?
Ant
ps, no one put a gun to their head and forced them to overextend themselves - blame the ultimate responsible party - if not big oil, if not citi, then you and me - the ones who drive, who borrow, who shop with free will
Yes Ant, but we live in a society where the individual isn’t at fault at all. There is always someone else to blame.
Other than that, I completely agree with you. Also, I work for one of the nation’s largest banks in the sub prime auto finance area. I see all of these people with $8/hr income asking for $20,000 cars when they have demonstrated (from all of the collections on their credit report) that they can not pay for any of the 4 cell phones they have ever gotten.
QUOTE FORM J FROM C:
“but we live in a society where the individual isn’t at fault at all. There is always someone else to blame.”
Sadly this is true.
Ant
ps, our day of reckoning is coming soon, the easy credit spigot is off and our foreign lenders (whether a sovereign fund, a sheik, or some other) may start to squeeze; BUT, good luck collecting fkrs - I’m gonna default, so sue me. OR, I’ll elect someone who will nationalize your assets. I KNOW - immature and naive but tried and true in many third world neighborhoods
I didn’t mean to suggest that the oil companies are at fault for our overall economic problems. The problem is that there are so many factors to “the problem” that it’s basically impossible to have an intelligent conversation without going off on 400 tangents, and I don’t have the motivation to write a book here (even a short one).
Let’s take as a given that the government (including our administration) is not actually part of the oil industry and is not on the take (I know that many would disagree with this position, and I myself am not sure that it’s a fair place from which to start… but let’s just take that as an assumption).
I would argue that the government’s job is to set trends, push through policies that prevent the public from being taken advantage of and provide both sides of the equation (oil company and consumer) a relatively level playing field in which one can prosper and the other can not take a plunger in the rectum in a dank police station basement.
My only argument was that the Bush administration has not played this part. They have consistently erred on the side of the oil company and not the public (who, arguably, should be their FIRST concern).
Personal responsibility is terrific, and I can decide for myself what to buy or what not to buy, so it precisely the ONLY role of government (in my opinion) to take charge where we, as individuals, have little or no ability to affect change.
So, as you said, the ongoing up-propping of the Saudis (and other despotic populace crushing regimes), the tax cuts on capitol gains, the refusal to advise the public that buying smaller cars IS in their interest (as well as all other manner of conservation), to suggest that they NOT go out and shop beyond their means… etc. etc. They have failed on all these fronts and, instead, just keep blathering on about how everything is “fine” even as Rome burns.
Quote:
“My only argument was that the Bush administration has not played this part. They have consistently erred on the side of the oil company and not the public (who, arguably, should be their FIRST concern).”
Can you explain that statement? I agree that the constituency should be the first concern, but I don’t know how they are taking sides with the oil company. It has always been a republican view that we need to drill in ANWAR and in the Gulf of Mexico as well as go after our enormous amount of coal reserves.
What can any administration do to a company with a 10% or less profit margin?
Gene,
Do you know who owns the oil companies?
I believe most state and municipal pension funds are sizable shareholders in varied oil companies. These are the retirement funds for public teachers, firemen, police officers, etc…
And now for something completely different…
Climate facts to warm to, a story in The Australian about how the climate models (used by Gore and most ‘progressives’ use to scare people into more government control of industry) predict that as CO2 rises, so will the average temperature, yet NASA’s Aqua satellite (launched in 2002) is contradicting those scenarios with the latest in climate sensing technology.
The money quote from the transcript of a radio interview on ABC Radio National (Australia):
I’ll be curious to see how discredited scare mongers like Al Gore, most Democrats, most environmentalists and local politicians such as the Governator in CA react to this news.
If I was a taxpayer in a state which had already spent millions or billions to combat CO2 emissions, I’d be pissed.
This whole debate, even before results such as those from NASA’s latest satellite, has been mired by sloppy and shallow thinking.
Climate Change has happened on this planet well before industrialization. One can only hope to live in an era of peak warming!
There is a reason CO2 is literally pumped into real greenhouses - the plants grow faster and more lush! The same is true for increased CO2 in the atmosphere, plant growth excels and CO2 consumption and Oxygen exhaust increase, offsetting the increase!
This isn’t rocket science, but it is an object lesson of the danger when scientists rely heavily on computer models to make claims such as those which have most of the literate planet anxious over climate change - models are only as good as their input and the Earth’s climate is too complex and poorly understood to construct reliable and accurate predictive models.
“This isn’t rocket science”
actually… it is rocket science. Computer models are only as good as their input, and yet, somehow have managed to do more in the last 10 years than all the science of the preceding 20,000 put together… so forgive me if I stick with the entire academic community and not with your vaguely confused interpretation of how things should work in greenhouses. If the ice caps melted there would indeed be some species that would be VERY happy with the end result. Sadly, unless you’re the first jelly-fish with internet connectivity, you’re not one of them… and I defy you to find for me a credibly scientific article that disputes that they are, indeed, melting, and at an ever alarming pace.
Anyway… this is precisely the kind of bickering that I described in my original post. “Divide and conquor” is the strategy that is being employed here so that mostly uninformed but well meaning people take sides on what appears to be a really important topic and then an endless amount of bull-shit is infused into the info-strata and nothing can get done anymore. Meanwhile, your food, water, and air are filled with poison and your children’s future is sold off to the Chinese.
Why don’t we argue some more about gay marriage? or the immigration “problem” or perhaps we can start talking about the dangers of drugs again? gun control? pick your non-topic… they’re all equally irrelevant but they serve as terrific filler between arguments about whether or not the Patriots are or not the greatest football team to ever roam the earth.
John, I think I explicitly stated what the administration could have done to protect the citizenry from the oil industry. It’s not about their 10% profit margin…
Consider. At this point even the Republicans are aware of the fact that our dependence on oil is the primary chink in our armor. We have our mouths wrapped firmly around Saudi cock and what one would expect this administration to do have done (with or without 9/11) would be to insist that a huge effort be exerted to develop alternative technologies for energy production, up to, and including, insisting that the oil companies themselves reinvest a certain percentage of their income to said research, much the same way that they force cigarette companies to teach kids the importance of starting smoking nice and early (or something like that). Further, they should have promoted a nationwide awareness campaign educating the idiot masses on how devastating it is to our national security/financial stability to have this level of commitment to a commodity that exists only in the most volatile places on earth.
I can go on, but that would have been a terrific start.
Quote from the Doctor:
“At this point even the Republicans are aware of the fact that our dependence on oil is the primary chink in our armor. We have our mouths wrapped firmly around Saudi cock and what one would expect this administration to do have done (with or without 9/11) would be to insist that a huge effort be exerted to develop alternative technologies for energy production, up to, and including, insisting that the oil companies themselves reinvest a certain percentage of their income to said research, much the same way that they force cigarette companies to teach kids the importance of starting smoking nice and early (or something like that). Further, they should have promoted a nationwide awareness campaign educating the idiot masses on how devastating it is to our national security/financial stability to have this level of commitment to a commodity that exists only in the most volatile places on earth.”
Are you telling me that they haven’t looked for sources of oil here? Everywhere they turned people are chaining themselves to the trees, hugging caribou, or finding some ultra-environmentalist judge to block their efforts.
Any semi-educated person knows that we are spending billions annually on oil and that money goes right to other governments. How else do you have many horrible regimes in power in these nations? Sorry to quote Dune, “He who controls the spice, controls the universe”. Same thing with oil.
The problem with educating the masses like the cigarette companies is simple. Smoking is still a choice. We still need to get to work and Mr. Fusion from “Back to the Future” never came about. We have no true alternatives right now. We could easily tell our people how nice it would be to get away from this dependence and look for sources closer to home, but see what I said about that above… it simply won’t happen.
So, we shouldn’t get oil from them. We can’t drill for it here. Our other opportunity are these Electric cars that require us to use a disgusting amount of coal power. What alternatives do we have?
Honestly, if you want an alternative, let’s talk about fusion power then. Fewer problems versus fission power. No worries with mining/refining uranium and dealing with its waste. Fusion is a virtually unlimited power source. We could power a ton of vehicles with it. I don’t see our governments pouring funds into it like we did for the Manhattan Project (which was something like 15% of our GDP at the time).
When you drill into an oil reserve, about 20% (in most cases) will come to the surface with little or no effort. After that 20% is recovered, most wells stop “producing” leaving 80% of that total reserve still in the ground.
With new technologies we are only now just beginning to recover that remaining oil. I personally am involved in “re-entry” of some of these types of wells in West Texas.
The Additional recovery of this oil costs more than the initial 20% because it must be coaxed out of the ground (often with CO2 or Water being forced into the ground to push the oil out) With the high cost of oil/gas here in the US these reopened wells are now economically reasonable.
There is a LOT of oil in the ground in the United States. The problem, the major obstruction to obtaining this oil is the ENVIRONMENTAL groups.
There are untold billions of barrels of oil in ANWAR in Alaska, the Oil Shale in Utah/Colorado, off the coasts of California and Florida. These oil reserves are EASY to get to, we have the technology to reach this oil quickly and easily (we’ve had it for 100 years) but the environmentalists won’t allow it.
These oil reserves wouldn’t solve all our problems, but they would ease the burdens. We could reduce our dependency on this “foreign oil” Just long enough to begin the development of other energy sources. (There’s a big pilot test of hydrogen fuel cell cars in 10 major cities in the US. going on right now)
One last thing…
Even in we could get FREE oil from the Middle East/ Venezuela / Mexico / Russia / the moon / aliens / yo mamma’s black teeth / or where ever, it would NOT matter much. There has not been an Oil REFINERY built in the US for 34 years.
The Refineries that we currently have are already operating at 108% capacity. More oil is not necessarily the answer.
More refining capacity would be a better start. Fuck California environmentalists who insist on “special blends” of gas. Fuck Florida environmentalists who won’t allow Drilling rigs off their shores (Cuba is drilling into that particular reserve already). Fuck everyone who is against drilling in ANWAR. (The footprint left after tapping that oil would be minimal). Fuck all the anti-refinery environmentalists everywhere.
In summary…
1- We need oil to sustain us in the short term
2- We should be expanding our refining capacity
3- We should be drilling for the oil that we ALREADY HAVE available to us.
4- Pete should not leave his show to pinch a loaf
5-We should be exploring new technology to free us from fossil fuels in the long term
Shit: something else.
If Hillary or Obama are elected they’ve promised to “go after the oil companies” and “go after their profits” to redistribute them to whomever. Those 8 cents out of every dollar won’t be much. They should focus on “Going after” the environmentalists who are the real problem.
John,
In response to your statement about expecting more out of truckers. Like most people, yourself included, we tend to spout off about things that matter to us the most. In the case of truckers, it happens to be the price of fuel. Not sure if you are aware of this, but the price of fuel directly hits the bottom line of any trucking company, or in this case, the individual trucker. Wheras large trucking companies are able to absorb the price of fuel and pass it on more quikly to the consumer, the individual trucker does not have that luxury. When the price of fuel goes up, the individual trucker will take home that much less when he recieves his pay check. What would normally cost $1960 to go cross-country, now requires $2520. Are you willing to take a $560 pay cut every 4.5 days? I don’t know about you, but if I were asked to do so I would be spouting off as much as these guys.
These guys don’t give a rats ass who is to blame, the know that the price of oil directly hits them hard in the wallet.
About the profit margin: While it is good business sense to operate a corporation at or under 10% profit margin, it is good accounting that keeps it there in order to keep from donating money to the feds in the form of taxes.
I enjoyed reading your comments as well as those in response to yours.
Reading the comments left here is much more informative than watching the Sunday Morning news programs. I am learning so much and realizing just when you think you have a strong opinion on an issue it can be turned on its head very quickly. Tat is why I love how many opinions are being presented here. Please keep this blog going with your opinions and statistics. I am quicky overcoming my fear of numbers..
Pete
How about you just produce a cite on a credible scientific study which details where the polar caps are melting?
In any case, I’m happy to defy you…
Recent Sea-Level Contributions of the Antarctic and Greenland Ice Sheets
Science 16 March 2007:
Vol. 315. no. 5818, pp. 1529 - 1532
DOI: 10.1126/science.1136776
From the conclusion:
The March 30 2007 issue of Science has 3 cites which also defy you… I’ll not quote them, but here are the references:
Discovery of Till Deposition at the Grounding Line of Whillans Ice Stream
Sridhar Anandakrishnan, Ginny A. Catania, Richard B. Alley, and Huw J. Horgan
Science 30 March 2007 315: 1835-1838; published online 28 February 2007 [DOI: 10.1126/science.1138393] (in Reports)
CLIMATE CHANGE: Ice Sheet Stability and Sea-Level Rise
John B. Anderson
Science 30 March 2007 315: 1803-1804 [DOI: 10.1126/science.1140766] (in Perspectives)
Effect of Sedimentation on Ice-Sheet Grounding-Line Stability
Richard B. Alley, Sridhar Anandakrishnan, Todd K. Dupont, Byron R. Parizek, and David Pollard
Science 30 March 2007 315: 1838-1841; published online 28 February 2007 [DOI: 10.1126/science.1138396] (in Reports)
I should note the above post does not dispute that ice sheets are melting, only that the causes are not understood or positively linked to any global uptick in mean temperatures.
What is in dispute is the hysteria conjured by statements such as ‘…are melting at an alarming rate’
These studies show the contribution to sea level rise are very very small, which isn’t alarming in the least.
Also -
WAIS: West Anarctic Ice Shelf\
GIS: Greenland Ice Shelf
all info in this post from, http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Historical_Oil_Prices_Table.asp
Quote from Martin:
“When the price of fuel goes up, the individual trucker will take home that much less when he recieves his pay check. What would normally cost $1960 to go cross-country, now requires $2520. Are you willing to take a $560 pay cut every 4.5 days? I don’t know about you, but if I were asked to do so I would be spouting off as much as these guys.”
I expect them to complain about the cost of diesel, but I also expect them to take the appropriate action. I expect them to raise their prices. Why have they not already? I honestly do not know enough about their industry and/or contractual agreements to formulate an opinion. My guess is that they have chosen not to because they would lose loads to the next guy who is willing to accept these lower fares.. At this point, I would point out that there are MANY industries where there is someone waiting in the wings to do the same job for less money.
What did these same truckers/long-haulers do during the 4 year span from 1979 to 1982? Prices then (adjusted for inflation) are considerably higher than those today.
Guys, this is all a part of the free market economy. When truckers raise their prices, this will then trickle down to the cost of the items that they haul. OR, shippers will look for alternative ways to move goods from A to B. Maybe the U.S. needs a further resurgence of using the rail system for moving goods!? Whatever we choose, we will all be paying the burden eventually through what we all call “inflation”. It may be the dreaded “I” word that everyone fears, but it is often necessary.
Here’s a question which just occurred to me…
If you had a choice between retiring on the proceeds of private investment funds or on the benefits doled out by the Social Security Admin, which would you choose and why?
John,
Great points in #22.
That’s why ’soak the rich companies’ is so illogical. If taxes, labor and materials are the overhead costs of doing business, then the prices will reflect it.
No corporation pays taxes, just like landlords don’t pay the mortgages on properties they own. The costs are passed on to their customers and tenants, respectively.
Todd, that is obviously a loaded question.
If you believe in the Rule of Sevens, if you have 100k put away when you are 30 at age 65, you will have 3.2 million…
I also do not trust the government to ensure my survival. If times get really really tough it is not hard for them to dictate where I live and/or what I can do with my funds. Would it be so hard for them to start sending us to “company stores” to buy essentials? I know that this is an extreme example, but it is not out of the realm of possibility.
Speaking of alternate energy tech, anyone seen this: http://video.yahoo.com/watch/852543/3489401
I want my water powered car…
John,
Guilty as charged. It was meant to make an obvious point.
Another one: If the government exists on revenue taxed from the economy and the economy tanks causing high unemployment, how can Social Security possibly be a ’safety net’ when it is funded by employment taxes?
nbsp;Boortz.com nealsnuze 07-30-07
TODAY’S GLOBAL WARMING MOMENT
In the past we’ve been all-too-happy to tell you about the huge problems that exist with the surface observation stations that record the temperatures which are being used to promote this (pardon me) global warming bullsqueeze. These surface temperature-measuring stations are supposed to be built according to strict standards. For instance, it would not be considered kosher to have a temperature measuring station located:
1-Within five feet of a steel drum used to burn trash.
2-Right next to an air conditioning vent.
3-Behind jet aircraft parked on an airport ramp
Yet you will find all of these situations exist.
If you’re all gung-ho for OwlGore and his global warming (weaken America) scam, perhaps a little visit to this website will cause you some angst. Here is the link for surfacestations.org. From this page you can view the image database that has been compiled by many volunteers. If you would like to locate some of the temperature measuring stations in your area of the country this page will show you how to do it.
Once you’ve reviewed this material you’re going to wonder why some major TV network or newspaper has exposed the problems with these temperature measuring stations. Damned good question.
___Read: The temperature information they’ve been basing the ENTIRE GlobalWarming arguement IS FAULTY!
One little temperature degree is all the “average global temperature” has risen in 100 years.
the reason social security works has exactly nothing to do with weather or not it is run by the government. it works because it’s a compulsory payment that, basically, everyone makes into the system that is deducted from their paychecks. As noted above, one of the biggest problems we have in our culture is our total inability to save money. Again, to cite what I was saying before, after 9/11, Bush didn’t go on TV and say “you’re all spending yourselves (read: this nation’s economy) into the shitter… stop buying crap you don’t need, tighten your belts, get yourselves out of debt and then put as much money into diverse investments as you can, so that when you turn 65 you’re not flat broke”. This would have been terrific advice.
Social security isn’t coming out of our tax dollars, it’s being taken, in ADDITION to our tax dollars… as such it is very similar to a 401k plan, and if everyone HAD to contribute to a 401k plan rather than a social security tax, there would be nothing to talk about. But the reality is that people don’t. and yes, we can blame that on personal irresponsibility, but as long as we’re writing tax-funded checks to airlines and baer sterns, I’m not willing to engage in an argument about how the government shouldn’t help out individual people when they’re in trouble. How many welfare checks and food stamps could have been issued with the money tossed into these bail outs? And just wait till Citigroup folds next month (and they will). Watch what we spend on THAT!
(oh, and I meant “whether or not”, sorry)
Oh, and I just remembered… I think it was Todd (and if not, forgive me) who called in and said that Torture is defined as something that leaves permanent scars or physical damage. Pete then started arguing that it might leave permanent psychological trauma.
torture, as defined by the dictionary is :
# anguish: extreme mental distress
# unbearable physical pain
# agony: intense feelings of suffering; acute mental or physical pain; “an agony of doubt”; “the torments of the damned”
those are the first three… there are more, but none of them have anything to do with after-effects. It doesn’t matter how you feel AFTER you’ve been tortured, it’s how you feel WHILE you’re being tortured that defines torture! You don’t have to think “oh shit, they’re going to kill me”… all you have to think is “OOOW OOOOW FUCKING OOOOW, AAAAHHHHH… STOP IT! OH, GOD PLEEEEASE STOP” for it to qualify!
This is a separate conversation from the one where all the professional interrogators maintain that you can’t get useful information out of a subject by torturing them. My only point here is to say that we as a nation should be ahead of the WESTERN curve on how we feel about human rights! Not competing with the 7th century curve of those with whom we are engaged in this farcical “war”. Yes, it’s true, they do behave very badly and we should be careful in how we deal with them, but to use their behavior as an excuse for ours is… well… idiotic.
Dre I think that it is completely UNFAIR that you are blaming Bush here. People have been doing this for almost 30 years. It should be on our parent, teachers, and professors to educate the youth. I am shocked that you didn’t blame the previous generation here.
Regarding airlines, do some research about the disgusting subsidies that many of them get. I forget the data, but there are some flights that are almost 100% government funded from like Butte, Montana to Cheyenne Wyoming so that there is a way for some people to travel. This is NOT the fault of the current regime.
With that said, if you guys can find me grants that pay me ~$60k per year to go from high school to high school to teach a one day seminar on personal finance, I will gladly quit my job to do so.
Okay, I have to put an apology up here…
Big Bro put “Let’s please just keep the comments substantive and civil” on the top of the thread… I tried to make a joke about the callers and my dry sense of humor went too far. For that I apologize. I didn’t mean to upset any of you.
John, I was not offended at all, I simply wanted to reply to your comments; and I value your comments and oppinions as much as anyone else’s. As a matter of fact, I feel you are more informed than the average consumer when it comes to the economy and affairs conserning citizens of the US.
By the way, I did mention larger trucking companies have an easier time passing on the rise in costs to the consumer: you and I.
It has been great reading all of these comments. I don’t always listen but I catch up on the weekends with you guys.
“And just wait till Citigroup folds next month (and they will). Watch what we spend on THAT!”
Don’t joke, it could happen.
Ant
ps, anyone say “too big too fail” as if Bear Stearns was; get your mattresses ready
RE: CITI
Jamie Dimon is still pissed at being fired from Citi 8 to 10 years ago.
As CEO of JPMorgan, he’ll have it step in to the rescure there too just to have the final word.
Ant
ps, paybacks baby
RE: Substantive posts
Am I the only fucktard who has a difficult time reading through the long posts?
Ant
ps, my 8th grade education requires “talking points” and brevity - “See Dick run.” “Jane likes Dick”
By stating that, you admit to be the exact person the media is shooting to broadcast to. Someone who can be spoonfed a well-spun five-liner. This is sadly why the average American has become very uninformed.
At one point in the 1800 and early 1900s, it was chic to have multiple newspapers delivered to one’s house. Since there were no other sources of entertainment, fathers used to read to their children by the candle/fire.
Remember that public houses (pubs) were where people used to congregate to discuss pressing matters. People were informed by their peers. People openly discussed these issues.
It is sad how times have changed.
sorry ant, I try to make my points as concise as possible… I do have a problem with verbosity… I apologize.
John, you keep reading my posts as “blaming bush” I completely agree with you about the blame being all over the place and I don’t blame bush for everything, I’m simply saying that these are things that he ought to have done to have played HIS part in being helpful rather than being part of the problem, which is what he turned out to be. As the president he has the pulpit from which to say things that people (especially those that voted for him) actually listen to.
Citigroup is absolutely going to need a bail out next month. I’m not saying this as speculation… it’s simple math. They’re about to announce that they have to write down 15 more billion dollars and Dubai has already said that they are not interested in giving them any more money. If I wasn’t sure that the Fed would step in to pick up their mess I would advise everyone that has more than 100k (FDIC cap) sitting in a citi account to withdraw it… not that citi has the liquid to cover such a run.
“By stating that, you admit to be the exact person the media is shooting to broadcast to. Someone who can be spoonfed a well-spun five-liner. This is sadly why the average American has become very uninformed”
Brother, I am that man.
Ant
ps, don’t gloss over the past so much - we had crusades, witch hunts, 19 economic crisese between 1857 and 1929 - basically its deja vu all over again (thanks Yogi Berra)
The future is much brighter than the past.
Ant, thank you for coming clean on that one.
Quote From Dre:
“As noted above, one of the biggest problems we have in our culture is our total inability to save money. Again, to cite what I was saying before, after 9/11, Bush didn’t go on TV and say “you’re all spending yourselves (read: this nation’s economy) into the shitter… stop buying crap you don’t need, tighten your belts, get yourselves out of debt and then put as much money into diverse investments as you can, so that when you turn 65 you’re not flat broke”. This would have been terrific advice.”
Okay, I was reading into the above statement as yelling at the current president as an anti-Bush remark. This problem has existed for quite some time. I blame Reagan for this more than anyone else. A high percentage of the post baby boomer generation did not save much, spent all they had, and now expect us to take care of them when they retire. Instead of paying for their kids’ college, they got a larger car/house/boat etc. For my generation to catch up, we had to get loans for everything we do.
Who said that “compound interest is the greatest force of nature”? If I was able to invest the money I am having to pay for my student loans, I would be able to retire 5 years sooner OR maybe pay for my childrens’ schooling!?!?! Honestly speaking, if you have $50,000 saved before a kid is born, it should be about $400,000 by the time the kid is 21.
“Remember that public houses (pubs) were where people used to congregate to discuss pressing matters. People were informed by their peers. People openly discussed these issues.”
And today, stop by a local pub and I bet you’ll catch an interesting talk about politics, or race, or sports, or CEO pay, or Britany’s latest or what not.
Log on to the internet and you can join a chat room or blog or forum and share ideas and be informed.
John, its really not much different. Dumbing down is a myth IMO. People today are actually more informed - perhaps to the extreme of information overload.
Ant
ps, brevity and a little light heartedness - and Happy Easter to those who celebrate