Weekend Open Thread
Before anyone hijacks my other posts for discussions of unrelated topics, I’m throwing out an open thread so you can talk about politics, news items, ball-shaving, whatever. As usual, the only rule is civility — topically speaking, anything goes.
For me to recommend another show might be ludacris, and not the rapper either! Last Monday I infuenced a belly flop! But heres an idea. How about a day of “Whats your favorite movie!” Just kidding, although that was a good way to end on a Friday.
How about we discuss education. My fiance is going into teaching with a major in communicative disorders. And is fluent in speech pathology knowing both the standard alphabet, the phenetic alphabet and the greek alphabet. And when she starts teaching she still won’t have that much respect and will still get paid shitty at least until she gets her masters, and then its partly shitty pay! And yes she absoluty enjoys the career path.
I’m willing to pay a bit more in taxes to fund our education system. And since we’re on the topic, fuck “no child left behind” this rule is shitty, as a nation we need a standard grade scale, no curves and a better way to motivate our children to learn. We need to improve our math and science grades as a nation as well. Also we need to make computer courses mandatory as well as finaces, included learning what bills people pay on a daily basis including how to figure out what all these percentage rates mean and why ARMs in the mortgage industry are a shitty idea for the long term. Also keep physical education in all school and mandatory. Drop all this junk food in the cafeterias and teach better health habits. Which could be another topic all in itself!
Also Pete you mentioned in Fridays show about America making English mandatory. I say if you plan on gaining residence here you should need to know English in a reasonable amount of time. In parts of Canada they speak only French, I respect that, its not my place to make them change. Anyways, thats all I have to say.
As a former teacher I second the motion to discuss education. The “no child left behind” act is a farce. Many children are being left behind. Honestly, I don’t know all the answers to improve the education of our students but teaching to the test in order to score higher on standardized tests is taking away from far more important things and is not really a true measure of student progress or achievement. When kids with special needs who can’t read or write are required to take these tests it’s absurd whether or not their scores are averaged in with regular education students. There’s a lot wrong with our education system and GW has not improved it one iota. Scott, teaching is a calling and noone expects to get rich doing it. We do it because we love kids, we are passionate about what we do, and it is a very rewarding career if you can keep the politics out of it. Hopefully, the health benefits in public school districts help to make the low income a bit better. I got great benefits in my district (urban). There are those who think we have it easy because of summer vacation and other vacation time. What they don’t know is that if we didn’t get it and the kids didn’t have time off we’d all go crazy. As an elementary teacher I worked later than most people in jobs other than teaching and took tons of paperwork home. In the old days if a kid got into trouble in school they got into double trouble at home. Now if a kid gets into trouble in school it is anyone’s fault but the kid’s. It’s not an easy profession and I defy anyone to prove it is. Yet, it is one of the most worthwhile things I have ever done. Good luck to your fiance.
Scott, you hit the nail on the head. I would love to pay higher taxes if the raise in taxes would all go to help schools teach our children become better contenders in the ever-growing global arena. The no child left behind is a joke, but as long as test scores go up, money will flow into school districts, regardless of whether or not our children are learning.
My wife was a teacher at one time, but early in her career she learned that low pay for her equals a long hard life, and at the time I was not earning a whole lot more than she. I have known several school teachers who work summer jobs to supplement their income because they love teaching, and need the extra money in order to survive in today’s society. It would be great if this country had a bright future, in order to ensure that, we need our children to excel in school, not only in test scores.
Your fiance is a special person, and sounds as though you are behind her 100%.
I support everything she does, of course. And even though we’re both 27 and shes still in college learning about her future could easily send some people of the edge. But, I can’t talk I never went to colege. The fact of what she accomplished and what she plans to teach as well as her passion for it, is very easy to support.
Also thank you Mama Mary for the words. I couldn’t agree more about the issues on kids getting into trouble. I know in my former school they removed the in school suspension. I got suspended once, I went skiing. The principle asked me if I learned my lesson, I simply said, “no, a day at the slopes wasn’t enough.” Had he given me an in school, I would have been a saint from that point forward! Also I was 18, what I did was nobodies business on my day off, and due to what got me in that position my parents were more upset I got the day off. But your right, more disipline needs to be applied not only in the schools but in the house. I’m not talking about beating the shit out of your kid. When my Mother said “wait until your Father gets home”, that ment something, today all it means is, “cool, Dad will be home soon.” And to go on a limb that may cause a reaction. We, need some sort of dress code in schools. This baggy pant, point out the click by whos wearing what. Needs to go, we need to put the students on the same level, I don’t means suits or slacks, I mean similar clothes. Plain fitting jeans and non-offensive clothing. And that needs to start in the home and needs to be supported in the schools.
Hitting a child teaches them violence. I have never hit any of my children out of anger; and praise will go a long way, as well as supporting them in their interests. I have 2 kids in college, both seeking a business degree, and another with a year to go in high school. None of them have been arrested, none of them have been in trouble- other than my daughter when she hit a kid in junior high when he tryed to kiss her, but that’s something totaly different. Being there for your children does go a long way, and you’re right, it does start at home. My wife is the best mother (sorry Pete, you think your wife has that title but it was taken long before your wife started ovulating) I could have ever dremt of ever meeting. If and when you have children, it sounds to me they will be in good hands. Educating our children will help make this country in the long run.
on a less serious note, if ever anyone would like to see what our leader is up to, just visit The White House web site at www.whitehouse.gov - but if ever you want to see what someone else’s opinion of what our leader is up to, just visit www.whitehouse.org -
I am sorry to have to disagree with one of your key points, Scott. I am so sick of every issue being given more money. We give no one an incentive to do the job right with the money they have. There is so much waste in the public school systems in this country.
I looked it up, in 2006, the average school district spent $8,701 per student. New York was #1 at $14,119 per student. 60% of the money goes to instructors. Only 9% goes to school operations, 7% for admin, and 4% for transportation (busses).
Also, the public schools get a majority of their funding by the state/city. The federal government does not pay too much for the students to go to class.
I agree that we need to deal with education, don’t get me wrong. I also agree that “no child left behind”, while a noble idea, has failed miserably. I just feel that throwing more money at the idea will result in more bureaucracy (more administrators) and more frivolous spending.
Hey Pete, I failed to ask why you never took a razor to your kiwi fruit. I figured that you’d want the carpet to match the drapes and be a completely hairless monster.
Men, never deny the need to do some good Manscaping. If you take the time to trim up your curlies, you will reap some good rewards. You don’t need to shave a landing strip or a dorito (the triangle)… leave that to the ladies.
An added bonus of all of this trimmins is it always makes your Trouser Warrior appear to be standing taller than ever before.
John, I appologize if you took my disipline comment to being that of hitting a child. As I do not believe in that nor am I violent, I did thought mention in that statement not beating the shit out of your child. What I mean is, I do think the ass is soft for a reason and if you need to take your kid over your knee feel free and do it in moderation. This sit in the corner horse shit does nothing. I remember when I was growing up I had a bad habit of not closing the door that went to our “mud room” this room was not heated, so cold air got in and hot air got out. My father had me and my brother kneel in front of the door, and kneel straight up. We did that for about 30 minutes. That was 20 years ago, to this day the door is closed. For school, when I had spelling test, if I spelt a word wrong, my Mother’s thing was heres a sheet of paper, write the word 50 to 100 times. I learned to spell, I also learned to use a dictionary if unsure how to spell something today. The punishment needs to fit the crime. And none of the punishment needs to be negative, even I’ll contradict myself and say a spanking isn’t even needed. When a new driver gets a ticket, a parent can go to the police department and suspend that drivers licence for “X” amount of time. When my niece who is 4 decides to liter rather then use a garbage can, have her do a little cleaning of a public park for a little bit. I was a boyscout, and we used to clean the city parks, I’m the last person you’ll see liter. no, I’m not a parent but is that the point? When my brother decided to vandalise the local community he was ordered 80 hours of scrubbing spray paint off of those buildings, its funny he never got into model cars like my other brother and I, why, I don’t know, the finishing touch is spray painting.
As for your research on education, I applaud you, I didn’t research it. But lets use a topic I do know. Toll booths. Lets go to New Jersey. Gov. Corsine admitted a bill to raise tolls by 400% in the next few years to pay THEIR 31 million debt. Not to rebuild roads, but to releive debt. My company doesn’t live in New Jersey, so why should we have to pay their debt. This is the same for education. Lets use tax dollars properly here. Yes, students need a safe place to learn, so lets supply whats needed, not wanted. My fiance will be going through some 6 years of college, for what to make less then my 6 weeks of schooling to drive a truck. Fuck that. Lets be reasonable. Lets use city and local taxes more wisely. If the government can afford millions daily to fund a quagmire, I think its time to pull our heads out of our preverbial asses and get with it. I know we can’t cut and run, fine. But, lets get something productive done. Lets start giving a shit about us our future and our today. I don’t care about feeding someone for 65 cents a day in Africa. I care more about feeding and educating our future so we don’t have ads in foriegn countries about feeding us. Pres. Bush has the audacity to borrow from China for a stimulus which most fucking people are going to take to Wal-Mart and do what, buy Chinese products. This is where we need education and responsibilty.
I do apologize that I won’t be able to respond to this right away, as my job doesn’t always get me to a WiFi area. But I will check in ASAP and respond. I also admit, I may be wrong on some things as well. But this is such a good group of people here in PMB, that I’m willing to stand corrected.
And another topic, censorship. To me censorship isn’t only about where and when to use “shits and fucks” but its thigns like “No Child Left Behind”. Its so censored that as adults we’re afraid to say, “you failed, try again harder next time, I’ll see you back here next year”. Its whats driving America out of America.
OOPS, PMB should be PBM
I didnt take offense to a thing. I am all for corporal punishment. I have no beef with a parent punishing a kid. I feel time outs to be about the most worthless thing. Yeah, send a kid to his room with more consumer electronics than Circuit City has. That will teach him.
Scott- you had it right, I read in a bathroom stall in Jersey Pete has a massive butt, hence PMB is correct.
As far as corporal punishment, I never had to deal with it, so I guess I am not one to answer or comment about it. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, my kids were never in trouble so I never had to smack the shit out of their bottocks.
John from Cleveland- I trim not to make the trees in the forest appear taller, just for comfort on hot Virginia summer days. I do agree it is much better, so I will stick with it.
(my mother had a wooden “spanking spoon”)
There is one subject that I would love Pete to talk about:
How will our economy grow now that we can not borrow ourselves into oblivion?
Backstory: From the very end of Bush 1, through Clinton, and into Bush 2 our economy grew unproprtionally to how it should have. We were experiencing record growth and we applauded Clinton for his wise leadership.
We know now that a large portion of this consumerist/consumptionist growth is due to the fact that the banks and finance companies allowed people of all income brackets to take money and buy things that they wouldn’t have to pay back for a long time. These same people kept doing it over and over and over. After credit cards (NOT store charges) seemingly died in the early 00s, people switched to borrowing from the equity in their homes. Now that resource is tapped out.
What can we do now to
1. Get back to where we should be in terms of growth?
2. Teach the next generation financial responsibility?
3. Get this multi-trillion credit debt under control?
All of this while we attempt to pay off our government’s debts….
Scott, you of all people should know why the butt is the softest spot on the body: it’s for sitting!
And PLEASE don’t take this the wrong way, Scott, but your mom was fibbing if she told you her methodical ways taught you to spell. Even though you’re obviously a very smart guy from the content of what you say, your written grammar and spelling are poor (as were mine until I re-taught myself after high school so I could be an editor). So maybe your romantic memories of how we were raised a mere generation ago aren’t so keen. (I wouldn’t normally point out spelling/grammar, because I seriously don’t care about that, but you opened the door…)
I never got shit out of school, and I was always able to scam my way out of learning their way. The school system definitely failed me by trying to fit me into its mold. So did every form of punishment fail me. Dogs and horses learn from punishment. Humans are more complex, and our brains offer us other avenues to learning. We don’t need to resort to hitting each other. We have LANGUAGE and the ability to REASON, which animals lack.
I endured more in-school suspension than you can imagine. Even just the amount my parents were aware of was pretty extraordinary. And then I would go right back and do the same shit out of spite.
On the uniform thing, I also have to disagree. I was an outcast for all my years in school (Pete and Mama Mary can attest). But if they’d made me wear a uniform, I just wouldn’t have shown up. Expression is still a right in this country, and I don’t think it should stop at the very place it’s most important: institutions of learning. How do we expect to teach kids to think for themselves if we don’t even let them dress for themselves? (Thank god Mom didn’t buy me that Don Johnson pastel suit and loafers in ‘87, though — that would’ve done me in for sure!)
Scott, you went from Mr. Softy who was peddling Oprah videos about being a better person to G. Gordon Liddy in just a week? Now you proudly proclaim that (mild) violence against kids is good for them and you don’t care about feeding African children?
The thing is, I’m not falling for the tough-guy stances many of you are trying to put forth here. Your “Get off my lawn, you meddling whipper snappers!” attitude isn’t fooling me. I don’t think you’re as grumpy as you’re trying to sound.
Don’t you think there are better ways to run a flourishing society than using threats and violence or enforcing conformity on the most vulnerable members?
Anyway, I am really enjoying this discussion, and I’m still a huge fan of Scott the Trucker and John from Cleveland, even when they act like cave men
Big Bro, did you read my entire comment or skim it? And yes, as I mentioned spelling, not grammer, I was on my toes with my spelling. If I had time to really respond with more then off the top of my head responses, it would be better. But lets go back…..I did mention the punishment needs to fit the crime, i.e. kneeling in front of a door my lazy ass couldn’t close, and after 20 years of that punishment, I now close doors to the exterior elements. And secondly, I do believe in the video I sent to Pete, but realisticly, because I believe we need to give more of a shit about each other, wouldn’t you agree those who give a damn are the same people who didplined you as a child, and bust your balls day to day? Just as I respond, its because I care, and I enjoy the topics. Thirdly, its not even a violence against kids or a tough guy stance. Maybe its because I was raised by “tough love” which I do believe in, but I also believe in Pete’s philosophy of spreading the love. Fifthly (if thats a word!) the uniforms, I also mentioned, there wouldn’t be suits and slacks, just a more respectable dress code. This pants around the ankle and hats cocked to one side is bull shit. And, whats worse is parents allow it to happen. Even though thats not my place, my uniform point was more of a dress code then parents having to buy an actual uniform for their kids.
About feeding kids in Africa, hell no I’m not giving anyone money to feed them. If anything, we need to start supporting America. Give the homeless a place to grow and find work, honest work. After a couple weeks in a shelter they start to pay their way in that shelter for so many months until they can save and get an apartment. If they fuck up, back to the streets, at least give them a chance. Rather then help the Buddhist out, help here, doesn’t America matter??
Martin and John, I never mentioned corpral punishment, I mention disipline, I can tell you right now before it happens. My kids won’t have TV in their rooms, they don’t need it. Maybe when they hit a teenage year and work in the summer and buy their own shit and prove responsible it may be allowed. (too soon to really tell though) And again maybe thats how I was raised.
John, yes we do need to teach kids about finicial planning and growth. My Dad did his best to teach me.
Finally Big Bro. I never agreed or mentioned mild violence, unless you consider what I called a spanking in moderation mild violence, then so be it. Also your lack of lesson learning on your part doesn’t constitute your loving parents to not try harder to make you a better person. Which it seems as someone has done. Your rebellion and spite is only your way of expressing yourself in a rude mischievious way. I seriously am glad that you over came that, because your a smart, insightful person. And one thhing I forgot, the uniform issue, when I was in school and t-shirts with anything objective would need to be turn inside out. This is a form of uniforming, all I’m saying is the baggy pants and cocked hats, need to go.
I appologize for any misspelling or grammatical errors! I have a slow day in the commodity relocation business and found time to reply!
I was in some hurry! I went from thirdy to fifthly and missed fourthly, maybe I’ll re-read before I post from now on!
**thumps chest**
He says that he is on his spelling and then misspells the word grammar… classic.
There’s more then grammer misspelled in there, but seriously are you a fucking grammer educator? If this was more then a blog comment site, and I really had the time to submit this to a spell checker, I would. I’ll be sure to have my former English Teacher proof read my blog comments. I drive a truck, when I have time, which isn’t often, but it is a Sunday, I stop at a Flying J where I have WiFi access and type out a response. I don’t office desk it or have weekends off, sorry. Also that was a merely an example, get over it, I’m not the one talking queerly about Pete’s groin area, so you may want to look yourself over. Also I started the topic, otherwise this may be a plain page, so with out the original topic of education, we wouldn’t be sore about misspelling and grammer. Even though I used it as an EXAMPLE. And yes this was submitted to a spell checker.
Scott, relax… I was just messing with you.
Sorry, I’m in Florida, and its way to damn hot! Hope you all had a good weekend. I need to move down the road once again, until next time…have a good rest of your weekend.
Okay, I really didn’t mean to get anything started about judging people’s spelling/grammar in the comments. Boy would that open me up to getting slammed! I really don’t care about that.
Scott, it sounds like you might be a little sour on what I said. I really hope you took no offense. I don’t think I misunderstood anything you said. Spanking is, by definition, a form of violence, though I admit it is mild (as I said).
When we provide aid to the poor in places in Africa or Asia that need it, we lessen the likelihood that people there will look at us as only taking from them. We sure have taken a lot from them, in terms of resources, exploited labor, and so forth. Sure, we “pay” for what we take, but the poor people of those places never see any of that money, because we pay it in cash to dictators, capitalists and politicians who don’t share it with their countrymen. So aid is a way to make sure the poor benefit from the selling of their national resources to our rich. If you look at it that way (which is how they see it), we kind of owe at least that much, no?
We could do all of that and double our education funding here if we just shaved some money off the military budget. No need to raise taxes. Or, we could just raise taxes on the rich. Does anyone think that if we started taxing at 85% every dollar over $5,000,000 that rich mofo’s like Al Parinelo wouldn’t still rake those 15 cents/dollar? Let’s try it and see!
I did understand what you meant about the “uniform” stuff. I just don’t believe in dress codes or uniforms. And I don’t see why YOU should get to set it, either. Why not force everyone to conform to some style you personally don’t happen to like, like drooping pants and crooked caps? It all makes no sense to me. There are kids who dress like what you and I might think of as idiots in school and get great grades, don’t misbehave, participate fully, etc. Why should they have to conform? What did they ever do to you or anyone else?
BTW, if you use FireFox (which everyone should), it will spell-check Web forms as you type! Won’t help with grammar, though, except to keep you from spelling it “grammer”
“Or, we could just raise taxes on the rich”
Here we go again… Typical view of how to solve our problems. All we need to do is take more money away from those that earn it and give it away. While we are at it, why don’t we have a new health care system that they pay for too… sure, they can afford it. When these people stop consuming and sales tax revenue drops, we will tax them more. When they stop buying things and people get laid off, we can take care of their unemployment by taxing the rich more, they have it…
When is enough, enough?
When it comes to giving more money to schools, let’s create more oversight jobs too. We need to ensure that there is even more red tape to cut through. I am sorry, I have family that work for the school systems…. The kicker:
If you give $1000 more per student, I can almost guarantee that the teachers’ union will strike to get their share because they are due. I would love a job where I worked 8a-330p (plus grading time) and my income of $48,692 is calculated for only 10 months work.
John,teachers in NYS cannot strike legally. I would never considerate it appropriate because I think we would be taking away from the very students we strive to educate. Unions are both advantageous and detrimental. It’s hard to get a bad teacher fired when they have tenure. Employees in most jobs do not receive tenure so that is a considerable benefit for teachers I admit. I also agree that there is a lot of waste in the school systems and that more funding is not necessarily the answer unless it is used in some way that actually improves education. You have family members working for the school systems? Are they educators? Elementary school teachers have little time during the day to do paperwork. We inhale our lunches if we have time to eat them because 1/2 hour goes fast by the time you take your class to the cafeteria, get them settled, pick up messages and notices at the office, touch base with another teacher/administrator about a student or new requirement, get things ready for the afternoon, and return to the cafeteria to pick up your class. Secondary teachers have more planning time and do not have to walk students anywhere. Teachers also are required to do planning and good teachers create new plans all the time to meet the students’ needs. Then there are the required workshops, inservice courses, and don’t forget, in NYS we must get our Master’s degrees within 5 years of getting a job. So we work all day and take courses at night and during the summer and write theses and finally get the degree just before the deadline. Don’t forget that we have to fill out report cards 4 times a year (much more difficult than you can imagine), and in many cases fill out daily or weekly reports on some or all students, and often we create and fill out at scheduled times behavior modification charts for several students in one class on a daily basis. Many a night after correcting papers (if the kids do the work I don’t believe in throwing the papers out)and calling parents, and creating my own tests or homework assignments to better assess my students progress,I didn’t make it to bed before midnight or later and got up at 6:00 to begin again. Oh, parent conferences take up several evenings and afternoons and trying to catch up with and reschedule parents that just didn’t show up…I could go on and on but this is getting too long. We have families also and sometimes our children and spouses don’t receive the attention they deserve because we have so much to do for school. Why do you think Brian and Pete turned out like they did?
If you have children, you want them to have the best teachers and get the best education possible. Most of us do our best to be and do those things. Like I said, I defy you to say it is easy. Walk in our shoes before you complain about time off and our salaries which will never be compensurate with the time we devote to the job. We now know what you do for a living and I’m wondering how much paperwork you take home. I agree that the system needs improvement and there are some substandard teachers out there, but then there are some loan officers that aren’t highly regarded just as there are those people in every line of work. I take great offense to comments about teacher’s pay and time off. Like I said in an earlier post, we need it just to stay sane. Teaching is not easy and more and more is required of us all the time. We do it because we are passionate about our calling and I do not regret for one moment my choice to be a teacher despite all I’ve written about the difficulties involved. Watching students achieve and progress and grow is extremely rewarding. Remember, “Those who can, teach. Those who can’t go into some less significant line of work.” Back atcha!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHIT !!!!! Johnny you just got served by mama !!! The next post you make should reflect that.
PD
Coming from a served Clevelander. Mama, you made a lot of assumptions about my statement… please read.
In Ohio, teachers strike all the time. It is always about money. In Ohio, the schools are mainly paid for by property taxes (which has been declared unconstitutional by the state judiciary many times). It is next to impossible to pay the educators more without the voters allowing it. Without a vote, the money has to come out of other school programs. Scabs will come in and teach while they are on the picket line and these people get spit on. I guess that leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I get told that these people care so much yet they continue to do this.
I never said that teaching was easy. Heck, my old roommate worked at an inner city charter school. I can tell you how fun it was because he was one of 2 white people there (including the students). He was treated accordingly.
I never said that you did not deserve the money you get. I just want people to understand that there are many of us with the same qualifications that don’t get paid that amount. I have a both a bachelor’s and master’s degrees. I get paid under 50k for 12 months of work.
Mama, I give a lot of credit to what you all do. Don’t get me wrong there. With the aforementioned roommate, I’d help him get all his grading done on Sunday mornings so that we could watch football. It sucked. He’d come home at 4pm and would grab a beer right away. It stressed him to death.
Also, I am not an L.O. I handle auto dealerships over a 4 state region (including NY). They send my bank loan applications which go to one of my underwriters. I just have to get them to send us the apps and deal with any issues with them after the approval process. We can discuss with fraud and other BS that auto dealers pull daily another time.
I just don’t think that throwing more money at the solution is the answer. Sure, some funds are needed, but blindly handing over checks never solve anything until we hold those working now more accountable.
My mom’s an art teacher, so this is a topic that’s very near to my heart. The reason teachers are paid so little is because the powers that be know that they would never want to do anything else. Why pay someone a higher salary when they’d be doing it for free if nobody paid them? Teaching gets under your skin.
That’s not to say that they shouldn’t be paid more. I’ve always thought that if you paid teachers more, you’d get more people interested in teaching. Teaching the next generation should be the most important job an adult can do.
Also, if you want to attract the best and the brightest to teach your little spawn, then you need to pay them in an attractive manner, on the collegiate level especially. I for one have had more than my fair share of professors who were hired out of their industry jobs with no real experience in teaching. They knew their jobs, but didn’t know how to teach. A higher pay scale would be contingent on the completion of some teaching courses. If you make a job attractive enough, more people will aspire to do it.
Not only do I think teachers should be paid well, but I believe that as a society we should aspire to educate our citizens for as long as they desire. This may or may not be feasible now, depending on who you talk to and what you want to cut, but people who want to learn should have access to higher education.
At any rate…that’s my two cents on the subject
This has shifted to teachers not getting paid enough… well off what I was trying to say…
Just as a note:
Ohio’s average teacher income was $47,791 in 2003-2004
Ohio’s average per capita income in 2004 was $31,135.
I agree, John, that more money is not “the” answer to solving our problems with education. However, you did whine about us having summers off and working 8:00-3:00. Then in your response to me you mentioned how your former roommate grabbed a beer when he got home from school in order to deal with the stress and how you had to help him with the paperwork so he could have some free time. What I am trying to tell you is that while it is a very rewarding career, it is also very stressful. You obviously realize that from the experiences of your roommate. You didn’t mention the amount of paperwork you bring home or staying on after your workday hours are completed. You didn’t mention going back to work at night as teachers frequently do for parent conferences and productions put on by their students. I also received extra training during summers or took after school courses so that I could better reach all my students. This is just a guess, but I’d bet that all the extra time I put into teaching beyond the 8:00-3:00 hours would be equivalent to your 12 months of work. I taught for 18 years and still earned less than 50K. I chose to teach in an urban district also, where things are very different from suburban schools where I now substitute teach. Although the topic of education was brought up I’m thinking you’d be better off complaining about the waste in government spending or the excessive salaries and benefits of CEOs, pharmaceutical companies, or a thousand other ways we are stripped of our money. Frankly, you will not get any sympathy from teachers about your salary being under 50K. How long have you been at your job? When you are close to retirement age, will you be making more than 50K? Teachers who make 50K or more have been at it a lot of years or work in very wealthy districts. In some areas of our country teachers make a lot less than in others but work just as hard at their jobs.
Sorry if I misunderstood what exactly you do. I’m sure that in time you will be making more than 50K. I don’t begrudge you your desire for that. Don’t begrudge teachers for their hard-earned salaries or their time off. I think you should lobby for an Ohio law forbidding teachers to go on strike. Will that make you feel better?
John, it seems that people often misconstrue what you are trying to say. You did mention more money for education would mean the teachers getting more (because of the unions)for working less time than most (8:00-3:00 and 10 months)while you make under 50K, did you not? Perhaps you should be more clear about what you are trying to say so bloggers won’t mistakenly assume you mean something else. You continue to defend your posts on a regular basis. If you were more clear, you might not have to do that.
John, you’ve got to be straight about how much you make. Here you said you make less than 50k, but in a previous comment you wrote:
“I work as a sales rep for a major bank and get paid in the 50s.”
Do you just change your salary to fit your argument?
By the way, I never had time to post comments on a blog when I was teaching. Every moment was consumed with school-related tasks. As I said, even the lunch break was often consumed by things needing to get done. How is it that you can comment all day long?
Big Bro…
Not too sure what to think about your idea of an 85% tax rate on all income over 5 million. I am strongly inclined towards libertarian principles so there’s a little voice inside me that screams “socialism” anytime I hear a suggestion RobinHoodism. I believe the main reasons for poverty in this nation have little to nothing to do with opportunity. I commented on a prior blog that that one full time worker making $10.19 an hour can keep a family of four above the poverty line: not exactly a monumental task considering that single worker households are no longer the norm. Yet despite my libertarian leanings there is another little voice in my head that says “why the hell can’t these people be content in their filthy filthy filthy richness.” Call me crazy but if I was pulling down 5 million a year I’d be retired after 2 years. Who needs that kind of money? Nobody. Yet in America it is your right to become as unnecessarily wealthy as you can.
Another thought your suggestion brings to mind is this: You suggested that these guys would still do everything in their power to rake in those 15 cents on every dollar earned. I wonder though if the best case scenario wouldn’t be that they simply decide to stop at 5 million. I’m no economist but I can only imagine this would lead to the demonopolization of our economy. I’m sure I’m underestimating the power of greed here.
“He who knows contentment is rich.”
Tao Te Ching
On the education subject…
I just had to add that I think teachers unions are a bad idea. It’s like having a union for politicians. How horrible would that be. Sometimes you gotta take out the trash. The job teachers do is paramount. Maybe they should be evaluated every few years to determine whether they deserve to keep their job or not rather than being protected by a union like a laborer.
So long as there’s something to protect teachers from dirty tricks like letting them go a month before they’d be eligible for retirement benefits. Granted, tenure can be a serious problem. Even other teachers will say that. We do owe teachers some job security so long as they’re doing their jobs properly, but a free pass to teachers who are no longer doing their students any good isn’t the way to go either.
Weston wrote:
First off, can we try to stop labeling things as “libertarian” or “socialist”? Where does that get us? Can’t we just address ideas on their merits, instead of obeying some ideological forces that try to define us?
Now, I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried to raise a family on what our government deems to be the “poverty line,” but it’s set pretty damn low, and it isn’t a standard decent people would use to actually discuss poverty or struggle in a realistic way.
Anyway, what you’re saying here assumes that children should be doomed to their parents’ situation. Doesn’t that, in and of itself, seem really fucked up? I mean, if your parents are poor, you’re poor. Maybe you have chances later, as we’re all taught about the American Dream, but during childhood you may have less than the very basics you need. If you have one parent you’re WAY more likely to struggle, or not have enough to eat, or rarely have time with either parent, etc, etc. Is that really an economic model we should stand behind?
Regardless, poverty wasn’t what I was thinking of when I made my statement. If we want to improve education, I think we’re going to have to put some money into it. If we don’t want children to be doomed to the economic fate or circumstances of their parents (children of poor parents go to worse schools, etc), then SOCIETY needs to step in. I’m not keen on that being through government, but that’s the mechanism our fucked-up market system leaves us with. Meanwhile, some kids grow up with excess. They get trust funds and inheritances. That’s just the luck of the draw. Does it sound fair?
Call me a socialist or a RobinHoodist if you want, for whatever it’s worth, but I think it’s just a simple principle of fairness vis-a-vis our treatment of children. That kids start off poor or rich, based on who their parents are, seems to be one of the biggest wrongs of our society.
If we could agree on that as a core problem of our society — the sheer unfairness of it — we could have a decent discussion about how to remedy it. But as long as one of us is okay dooming kids to the lot of their parents, I think we should just agree to disagree and discontinue the discussion. I suspect you have good moral instincts, so I’m really interested in how you address this core issue.
Alright, I’ve worked 40 hours a week for $11.50/hour and I can barely cover my bills. My biggest luxury is a cable modem, something I pay for at the expense of not having car insurance (yes, I’m an addict). That’s just me in a shitty rented apartment.
I’m not sure how anybody can expect a family of 4 to survive on $10.19/hour. They had better eat a lot of mac & cheese. Whatever study you’re quoting Weston is pure fantasy.
Weston, teachers are evaluated once a year in my district. And please don’t put teachers and politicians in the same pot. There’s no similarity.
We had to teach for 3 years before being considered for tenure. Maybe teachers could receive tenure for a limited period of time and then if they are not living up to the expectations of the administrators, they could be given the boot. It’s not impossible to fire a tenured teacher but it is difficult in most cases. My principal was able to get a veteran teacher (25 years) fired somehow. He was a very nice man but had no idea how to operate a classroom full of kids or how to impart material to their eager minds. He had apparently been transferred from building to building for years because none of the administrators wanted him. I know teachers who were denied tenure because they didn’t make the grade.
Big Bro, never call my honesty into question. My salary is under 50k per year.
Mama, I have a lot of respect for you and people who do what you do. Please don’t get mre wrong at all there.
On the subject of tenure, I feel that this is one of the worst practices ever. It hurts any district’s ability to get rid of underperforming or bad teachers. There are tons of grade/high schools plus colleges that are literally bound by contract to keep someone employed for life (unless they commit gross crimes or insubordination). What other institution has these rules?
We could always discuss those teachers who helped their kids pass proficiencies in order to get better scores themselves.
Instead of these archaic methods, we should discover a way to teach them correctly.
Regarding parents, right now, our parents care more about being their children’s friend than actually preparing him for the future. I could go on, but I bet you already agree with me.
Hey, I’m not the one who keeps changing his salary, John. Here’s where you said it was “in the 50s”.
Salary is one thing… Possible commission is the other. I made 4k in commission last year which put me over the magic numbe rthere. Since it is so important, my salary is $49800 per year.
For the love of Vishnu, John, you really want to try the weasel route instead of just backing off or apologizing? You couldn’t just stay down for the count? You originally wrote:
You don’t “get paid” your commission? What, do you take it out of the cash drawer when the boss isn’t looking? You think that’s a technicality you can get off on?
When are y’all gonna learn that very little gets past me (other than moonwalking bears)? If I bust ya on a contradiction, come clean, don’t dig a deeper hole and accuse me of making shit up or unjustly challenging your impeccable honesty. Sheesh. So you fudged a little to make your argument.
But I still love you, John, and I’m still going to donate to your 2010 state senate campaign (by credit card, of course). Todd has lightened up his postings (knock on wood), so I need someone to keep me busy as a fact-checker. Imagine what I could get done if I wasn’t constantly challenging untruths made by callers or commenters!
commenters?
Wow, too much to follow. John, salary does matter when it’s brought up and then denied. Also, I want to say to John. I enjoyed learning about Pharmaceuticals from your comments on today’s show (Monday 3/31).
Also the latest info I could find stated Wisconsin teachers are ranked 26th in the nation in pay. Averaging $43,099.00, which is more then I expected. And this info was released March 29, 2007. So just a year ago, http://www.aft.org/presscenter/releases/2007/statereleases/SalarySurvey-WI.pdf
There’s