Tuesday Open Thread
I’m swamped today because I’m planning to spend Wednesday and Thursday in Philly with Pete. So I’m just gonna set y’all loose on each other again. Play nice.
I’m swamped today because I’m planning to spend Wednesday and Thursday in Philly with Pete. So I’m just gonna set y’all loose on each other again. Play nice.
Well, let’s talk about what Pete opened the show with and that is education.
I have discovered that too many parents would rather be their kid’s friend rather than a parent. They buy them things… shit… they spoil these fucking kids any more. Parents buy booze and pot instead of keeping them away from these type of parties. I didn’t really learn about pot or even see it until senior year of high school.
Our parents are definitely not like those in other nations. We don’t put an emphasis on education or conduct like they do. I wont go into examples, but I can assure you that they don’t take failure lightly. They don’t blame the teachers, fellow students, and evironment they learn in…. they blame their kids if they don’t succeed.
I know plenty of parents who do put a very high emphasis on education in this country. You are being quite general with your assumptions. On the flipside, it’s very true that there are parents who do not; parents who work out “deals” with their kids to control them instead of exerting the control a parent should retain undeniably, over their child. My problem with education in this country is the fact that we invest a fraction of a fraction of what we should into public education. It’s hard to encourage kids to participate in a system that most teachers don’t even want to participate in. This is a country where we pay douche bag athletes millions, and expect the educators of our future generations to eat cat food. Florida is particularly heinous with regards to public education, some states are better, probably some worse, but regardless, the system as a whole is flawed. Flawed systems will yield flawed results.
Hey John do you have any studies to back up your generalizations? It’s not something I’ve paid a lot of attention to, but I think EVERY generation has always said that. It’s kind of the “Bah-humbug, these whipper snappers, in my day we…” argument. Or at least that’s how I’ve always dismissed it. But maybe there’s something to it, other than one man’s subjective observations.
BBB
Baaaack when I was a kid we used to have to walk to school in the snow, uphill, both ways!
On a side note, to take advantage of the awesomeness associated with the openness of this thread, I found the dairy industry’s new marketing campaign hilarious. The sad part is that as I was educated by the Florida public school system, I may fuck up embedding the video. Wish my luck…
Screw it, look up white gold on youtube and check out the rad spandex and long hair that makes me somehow not thirsty for milk.
Bryan, I disagree that we spend a “fraction of a fraction”. I think that the money is not always used correctly. Personally, I think that the national average of $9138 should be adequate. Cite:
www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695268061,00.html
Then again, we are spending $22,650 per inmate annually.
Cite: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/spe01.pdf
My father in law is a chief custodian for a local school. He says that the grade school he works for and the entire district hides money. His sole motivation is to get more benefits, more pay, more more more as he is a part of the union. This district doesn’t pass levies (in Ohio, the city takes care of most of the schooling).
I think it is incumbent upon those making the claim ‘health care is a right’ to clearly state the grounds upon which such a right is based.
I don’t believe it is self-evident, because ‘health care’ is not a concrete concept (as opposed to ‘life, liberty and property’) and has meant different things at different times. Does this mean a right to health insurance or simply to be treated? Does this right entail a claim upon someone else’s life, liberty or property?
It seems to me for something to be an inalienable ‘right’, it cannot effectively trump other inalienable rights. What does a universal system say to people who don’t want coverage in it? Do they get a tax rebate or are they forced to pay into the system whether they want it or not?
I agree the DMV analogy is a poor one when projecting what it would be like under a universal system. A better one would be to look at the VA hospital system. My father in law died in our local VA January this year. I was the only person related to him who visited and spoke to him on a regular basis in the 6 years before he died (he left his meager estate to me in an un-executed will) and I know a little about the limited choices available to him.
Another aspect of this debate which was ignored on the show is the history of the insurance industry. HMOs were created by the US Congress. Richard Nixon signed the HMO Act, if I recall correctly.
When there is a third party negotiating and paying health care expenses, one has to pay the middle man. I think the goal should be to remove the middle man. Private health savings accounts and private high deductible catastrophic insurance plans are the best combination in today’s shifting economy.
Yea John, very true, throwing good money after bad is not the answer, but the system is still flawed if the funds do not go to where they should. I think teachers should make a a helluva lot more for doing what they do and dealing with what they deal with.
Overpopulated prisons is a different can of worms. I think mandatory minimum sentences are crushing our prison systems. This links right up to legalizing pot for me as jailing minor drug offenders with killers and baby rapers is, uh, not cool. I vote we streamline the process with a multi prong approach: Legalize pot and have large amounts shipped directly to my house each month err week (mmmm square groupers), abolish all MMS, and make prison terms much shorter and much much much harder (no TV, no weight sets, just making big rocks into little rocks).
One of the biggest problems with our government school systems is an absence of competitive pressure. Middle class and poor citizens do not have the resources to fund the public system and pay for private schooling, so they are stuck with whatever system is available to them. To change the system requires massive time and effort to move the governing bodies to change the rules.
A system of publicly funded but privately run schools (ie, ‘vouchers’) would encourage innovation and empower parents of all income levels to seek out a better school if their current one doesn’t suit them. It would also empower teachers by giving them the safety of a contract with parents and students. If cleaning the classrooms and halls to spare the expense of custodial staff or parent volunteer hours to scrape gum and wash windows are a part of the deal, all parties accept this going in.
I believe the more consumer choice the better. I’m pro-choice. And that’s always good, right?
Bryan,
Non violent drug offenders should be released immediately. The War on Drugs has been a miserable failure.
Yessa Todd,
It’s funny to think that our war on weed started with an attempt to alienate Mexicans. Good film on the subject I watched recently was “Grass” by I believe, Ron Mann, narrated by Wood Harrelson. Screw the treasury department, buncha Nazis.
#7 Todd
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The answer is You pay twice.
Just the same as the government school system. You are welcome to pay for your own schooling AFTER (in addition to) you pay for government school.
I read (20 years ago) marijuana was prohibited due to pressure from Dupont Company, who saw a threat in the refinement of hemp fiber into cloth to their synthetic fiber patents (eg, Nylon).
Regardless, if it isn’t something that harms another, I don’t see why one should be punished for it. If protecting us from our own selves is reason to ban pot, then alcohol, cigarettes and McDonald’s food should be on the list as well.
#12 Foomis,
Is that just?
Cuban Mythology. Heh.
okay this is WAY off topic, but I want to point out that the NFL schedules were released today and my Cleveland Browns have 3 Monday Night games, 1 Thursday night game, 1 Sunday Night game, and 4 4pm east coast starts (denotes national marquee game).
GO BROWNS!
John;
You try having a mom that’s a teacher and a dad that’s a State Trooper, then tell me that education was low on their priority list for my brother and I.
Then throw in the Grandafather that ran a successful business for 47 years, on a 9th grade education. He stopped going to school so he could help support/run the family bakery during The Depression.
The Step-Father that was one of the first computer data/information systems instructors in my area.
His Step-Dad, my Step-Grandfather, was the Fire Chief of my town for over 20 years. But not before he was the youngest fire cdet, youngert fire lieutenant, captain, district chief, then ultimately, youngest fire chief of my hometown. Oh, I have to throw in that he was also the leader of the CCC in the area after FDR took over. Upon his release from the US Army, after WWII with a Purple Heart, Bronze Star and Silver Star from Battle of The Bulge, he went directly to the prestigeous Royal British Fire Academy as the first American to attend, then graduate from there.
How about my briother, a CWO2 in the Marine Corps. Started as an E-1 and through time, education and service, became an officer.
Then me. I served in the Marines, got an education, worked in radio for almost 15 years, and now have decided to use my education and drive a truck and help my company with it’s recruiting and training programs.
That’s just for starters. Now I’m instilling the same work hard attitude and get your education, so she can achieve MORE than I have. That’s what every parent should do.
Don’t be so quick to swipe that brush so wide and far. If you’re not careful, you’ll end up having it whip back and smack you in the face.
Sorry, just realized I forgot to say WHO my “work hard attitude” was for. My 9 year old daughter. My bad. I also apologize for the typo’s. I’m doing this in a hurry before I hit the road again.
Guys, I am not saying that your parents didnt give a shit. I am talking about the current crop. And it is a sweeping generalization to boot.
Pete said it right, there are too many parents that give their kids everything they want and instead of parenting, they are bartering with them.
Just wanted to comment on Universal Healthcare… Pretty simple in my mind really. If you believe in the inalienable rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Healthcare would obviously fall under those pretexts. In order to have life and to pursue happiness, you would need to have the best possible sound mind and body. It really is that simple….
Yeah, but back in their times, the only healthcare available was spartan or even barbaric.
Doctors were paid for by themselves, if they could afford one. There was no insurance.
General question: At what point is the “pursuit of happiness” going to stop with some groups of people never providing for the collective good?
Back to the health care issue.
I pay for my children’s health care. They are my responsibility. Therefor… I will ensure my children wear their helmets when they ride their bikes, i will also make sure they are riding their bikes instead of sitting in front of a television. I will also make sure they eat their vegetables, and not eating every meal @ McDonlads. I will also make sure they get their immunization shots and doctor check-ups. I will also make sure they do NOT smoke, run out in traffic, or handle high explosives.
If i also have the responsibility to pay for Joe Schmoe’s children’s health care… do i have the right to make sure they live healthy life styles.
No i don’t.
Joe Schmoe (or Jane Schmanyne) Should have the responsibility to take care of them. Also to pay the consequences if their fat, lazy children develop diabetes.
Foomis, I don’t know you, but I love you.
You need to listen to Mike Church from 12 to 3pm on Patriot. He HATES the idea of universal healthcare. He always talks about people’s choices and how the new system would not incent people to make healthy decisions and that everyone (all incomes, lifestyles) would have to stand in the same line for the same care.
All this is nice to read, I like it. You want your kids to get better grades in school? How many of you spend time with your kids?
Spend time with your kids. Go biking, hiking, off-road, read to your kids no matter how old they are, go shopping. It all begins with you as a parent, and it ends with you as a parent as well.
Spend time with them and teach them good values, watch them grow and be amazed when they complete the smallest of tasks, and do it over and over again, and you will see they will teach their children how to be good parents, and so on. Children will emulate what we as parents do, which means we as parents need to set good examples. You want them to get a better education? Get your ass involved, go to parent teacher conferences, talk to their teachers. How many of you have all your friends on your email address book? How many of you have your children’s school’s and teachers’ email address on your address book?
I hope many of you are already involved, for the sake of our future.
Education first . . . A bumper sticker my fiance seen today, for those who don’t know. My fiance is an education major at the University of Wisconsin Whitewater, probably the best school in the state for education. She is fluent in not only our alphabet but the phenetic and greek alphabet as well. She has a few years of speech language pathology (which was her original degree) and she is now in the world of special education in which her liscence will be good for pre-K thorugh third grade. Her parents did how ever have contact information for her teachers and it blows my mind to this day that her mother still remembers who all of her teachers where. Especially in a town of 60,000. I brought that up to bring home the point that not only does any or all the info on education I get comes from her or a few friends of hers (all teachers) but she also has a leg to stand on when it comes to the deucation system. Back to that bumper sticker. “It will be a great day when schools have money for neccissties and the government needs to do a bake sale for a bomber” I had to laugh. She also has one on her car that reads “After we get done rebuilding Iraq, can we rebuild our education”. Two great points. And John I do agree with you. Todays parents don’t seem to give a shit, to most of them school is simply free day care. The government doesn’t care either, as mentioned on the show today, an educated country is harder to control.
Health care . . . I’m still a bit confused on this one myself. As I see it, I’m an American. Sure I have a freedom of speech, as long as its not offensive. I have a freedom for gun control, as long as I have a permit. (two examples from the show, I added to) But do I really have the right to health care? The caller said with responsiblity. Well…duh! How can it be used irresponsibly? As an American its a down right shame that the best surgery comes from either California or overseas. My local hospitol should have the best doctors and nurses, as should every hospitol country wide. As an American I should be able to get into an emergency room in New York City, without waiting. As an American I should be able to afford prescription drugs. As an American I should be able to afford health care, of my choice. When we went in for my Fiance’s birth control her insurance suddenly stopped paying, there went $50.00 out of her pocket. But this country’s government wants to control the population…so we discontinue prescription coverage?? Oh yeah, it helps control every 28th day as well. Should we really have total coverage? I’m mixed on this. Lets start with the positives to this. Our elders could get their prescriptions and still afford to eat. I could go to the dentist to have my wisdoms removed and not have to worry about the thousands its going to cost me. I could go in each year for a physical for preventative check ups. When someone gets a funny feeling they could simply go to the urgent care rather then risk permament more expensive procedures down the road.
Why is this a bad idea. Well, its another way to “puppetize” the country. Heres a short story…
Government…Mr Trucker, we have a nation wide health care system, feel free to go in for a check up whenever you can, we have a list of doctors we approved for you in your area.
Mr Trucker (Thats me!)…Cool, wait you have to approve my doctors?
Governemnt…Well of course, we pay the bill, you go where we want you to go.
Mr Trucker…mmmmm, ok?? (a day later) well Government I picked a physician from your list, unfortunetly my family doctor for the past 27 years is not on that list.
Government…well, hes getting old anyways.
Mr Trucker…Well, I visited him and they say I may have high colestorol. (I really don’t)
Government…OK, theres a doctor perfect for that in Chicago
Mr Trucker…but that and hour and a half away, whats wrong with my doctor?
Government…Listen, we pay, you go where we tell you to..puppet.
Hopefully that makes sense. My biggest worry is the more power we give the government, the more they take and take. We don’t need anymore strings on the puppets. I say we continue to pay our own way, my $24.00 per week isn’t so bad. But, we have smaller deductibles with larger coverages. We make prescriptions affordable. And we get rid of copays and allow for more preventative maintanance.
Sorry, I tend to drag on as I don’t get online as often as I’d like to.
What you outlined is the issues currently facing the Canadian health care system…
[i] “As an American its a down right shame that the best surgery comes from either California or overseas” [/i]
That statement couldn’t be further from the truth. A personal affront to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, The Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, and the Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland… (#s 1, 2, and 4 in the nation).
I wish I could show you the many times that roads around the Cleveland Clinic gets closed temporarily by the police… of course there was no “real” reason…
Sorry to say, but they are coming here for surgery. Also, so are their doctors… to train from us.
listening to the replay right now…
Thats me talking about Health care.
Brian and Pete are correct to point out the DMV analogy is old and maybe even an outdated stereotype.
But you can compare the (proposed health care systems) to ANY other government run program. Education, Veterans Hospitals, Social Security, airport security, etc.etc.etc.
After i hung up, i thought to myself “Damn, Brian and Pete shut me down, hardcore.” But listening to the replay, i think i did okay.
I know i am not an expert by any measure. I’m just a regular hard working guy. I think government is too big, and i think it should be shrunk (shrank, shrinked, whatever) rather than expanding I.E. by Health care.
Pete and Brian pushed and pushed me until i had to quote AndrewWilkow (from a promo, no less). and i HATE them for it, haha. I know it makes me sound like a uninformed idiot to steal, word for word, an argument that i heard somewhere else. But i truly am not as quick as the two BigMouthBrothers.
Thanks for letting me have my say.
Are you saying that our government always makes the right decisions for us? Wow…
First of all, why the hell do I need to go to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, The Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, and the Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland? I live in Wisconsin, where we have the Marshfield Clinic, but thats bull shit. I should have equal care at any hospitol. Robert Schimmel had the mind set to take his 12 year old son, who died of cancer, over seas to possibly survive. Thats bull shit. Canadian prescriptions are cheap, why not here to? And out government making the right decisions? When the fuck has that happened?? Our governments wants only to tie strings to us and make a big puppet show. And lets cut down on your road closures and train the rest of the fucking country, so people in states other then Minnesota, Maryland and Ohio don’t have to travel so far for treatments and surgeries.
Years ago I had a chiropractor who knew how to adjust my back, then I changed jobs. With change comes new insurance. A fucking HMO, no more Chiro. This country is needs to get its priorities straight when it comes to health care, its that simple.
Oh yeah, I don’t do much to support this government. Between illegal wars, allowing immigration, allowing a resession, allowing a failing social security, allowing a failing education system, allowing the use of an electoral college, the use of a delegate system, allowing for rediculous tax breaks for those who don’t need them, allowing health care to fall on its ass, allowing companies to move over seas, for bringing together church and state and impeaching a cheater but not a liar? No, I don’t give a rats ass for a cabinet that wipes its ass with our constitution. Fortunetly for us this is America, and in just over 9 months and 13 days, we’ll be crowning a new president, hopefully this has his or her shit together.
Recessions are a natural part of any economy. We just grew too fast and sadly alot of our growth was on the back of credit cards and nothing else. Other than that, Scott, your above statement is darn near right on.
Also, dont say that people have to leave the country to get adequate healthcare. I understand and know of Schimmel’s situation but his situation is the exception and not the norm. People come here to train before returning home. We have some of the best hospitals with the best equipment around. They are developing some of the most ingenious ways to treat many illnesses.
Foomis and John, you seem to have no understanding of how healthcare works. If you have health insurance, you have very little monetary incentive to remain healthy or keep your kids healthy. (Do you seriously feel like citing Mike Church is a good move in bolstering your case, John? I’d rather the Wilkow references!) The arguments you guys are making about incentives have no basis in reality.
But seriously, Foomis, are you really only keeping your kids safe because you pay premiums on their health insurance or copays on their doctor visits? If you did not pay for that, would you just let them be unsafe and unhealthy? I hope not, but that’s how you made it sound.
This incentives argument is a bizarre invention of elitists who want healthcare for some and none for others. Adopting it because you may sympathize with that view (for some other, more-legitimate reason, maybe?) gets you nowhere.
Besides all of this, a HUGE portion of healthcare costs are a result of people not being able to get regular checkups and tests because they don’t have coverage. A lot of emergency-room visits that taxpayers pick up the tab on are a result of this. Soon when I have more time I’ll post some numbers. It will blow your minds how much we could save if we had a single-payer healthcare program that operated in the public interest (rather than for profit).
Oh, also, on the matter of lawsuits and malpractice premiums, that’s one of the biggest myths every imposed on Americans. It’s such a huge sham, but liberals and conservatives alike repeat it like a mantra until we all just accept it. Here’s an article I worked on that exposes what a lie that whole thing is. Believing insurance companies and doctors’ associations is something I’d think PBM’s listeners (and host) would rise above. And here’s another one about those scumbag companies. Don’t fall for the hype, folks.
I’m off for the night. On my way to Philly in the morning.
You had an individual on the show yesterday that spoke as if the Contractors OCONUS that were retired vets or vets received special insurance from the government due to their prior service. I may be mistaken but he made it sound as if it were free and that the amount was a firm 400,000. VGLI is something vets and retired vets continue to pay on to receive. Here is the link for more info. Its not free.
http://www.insurance.va.gov/sglisite/vgli/vgli.htm
Re: #24 Martin.
I agree. No matter what the school system, parents who are involved with their kids teach by example. Sadly, those not involved also teach by example.
We tend to talk about various social problems as discrete things - eg, large prison populations, failing schools, poor parenting - but fail to consider them as an organic whole. Consider the number of men in prison who grew up without a father in their home. I recall one study put it at around 90% - that may have been violent offenders only - either way the number was disproportionately high.
I would think it logically follows that reducing the number of single parent homes may likely reduce the fatherless prison population by attrition. Fewer fatherless children = fewer future inmates?
If this is true (it seems intuitively so to me), then the question is how do we encourage fidelity to children from both parents? As you said Martin, children grow to be like their parents (apple trees make apples, I like to say), good or bad. How do we help our fellow citizens break bad cycles? Is there a way to do it which respects the privacy and religious convictions of good parents?
Re: #25 Scott the Trucker wrote (at the end of the post):
Scott, you make a good clear point about government strings attached to government (ie universal) healthcare. That is what rationing is all about and the reason quality of care will suffer under a centralized single payer system.
What if we had a system where you made monthly payments (in place of insurance premiums) which were split between some kind of checkable market fund and a low premium to a high deductible/catastrophic insurance policy. If most Americans were set up this way, then regular doctor visits would be paid out of the checkable fund up to the deductible, when the insurance would kick in, should one’s health deteriorate.
Someone who lived healthy and paid in regular ’self-premiums’ would amass a rather sizable medical fund over time. Putting the month to month costs back into the hands of medical care consumers means taking control away from the insurance companies, who as Brian rightly noted, are greedy bastards.
By the way, Brian linked to a story he worked on which he claims exposes the ‘lie’ of medical malpractice as an issue. I assume he means as an issue pertaining to higher medical costs.
What Brian doesn’t say is that his story is effectually a press release for a Public Citizen’s 2007 study. Public Citizen is Perennial Green Party candidate Ralph Nader’s baby and is not ‘above the fray’ and is most decidedly ‘pro-litigation attorney’. Those interested in both sides can read Public Citizen on medical malpractice from the Manhattan Institutes’s Center for Legal Policy blog Point of Law.
Re: Brian & Pete on Stem Cells
I’m listening to the show as I code and heard the criticism of the Pope and opponents of ’stem cell research’. I don’t believe I heard anything which indicated an understanding of the difference between stem cell research in general and the ethical concerns surrounding embryonic stem cell research. This NIH page on stem cells has links to current research programs.
To ridicule those who have ethical concerns with science research which creates human embryos essentially as a disposable stem cell crop does a disservice to civil dialog. That kind of sneering arrogance is a sign of a closed mind, if you ask me.
This recent Nature story ($$$) discusses iPS stem cell research. Here’s the lede:
One of the five issues is #4 Embryonic stem cells are the same as iPS cells: the Nature conclusion?
There are new ethical concerns with iPS stem cells, but those are cloning related.
It is also a distortion to say those who oppose federal funding of embryonic stem cell research have banned or have attempted to ban the research. There is a difference between prohibiting federal sponsorship of research and prohibiting research.
I know this: Biotech venture capitalists invest money in research with the most promise for success in developing new treatments. Private money has mostly been going to adult stem research, which has held the most promise and - as the newly emerging iPS stem cell technology is perfected, will prove to be the right call.
Guys I am new to blogging and only get the laptop for about 2 hours a night. I am an aspiring comedian/talk-show host. If you have heard me on Pete’s shows I would like your feedback. Be gentle it’s been a rough road for me. I will say that I enjoy hearing all of the callers on the shows and hope that you enjoy my points of view as well. Not begging for your approval, because I could really give a shit, so let me know what you think.
Excellent post John! What ever happened to just a bit of fucking innocence? I got into drinking and smoking at 16, but at that point I was much more adjusted in life than these Nintendo, Twinkie eating, soda guzzling shits. I also had more respect for my parents than for pathetic celebrity assholes and atheletes, as I still do. I appreciate what the entertainers do and aspire to be one myself one day, however this celebrity worship is out-of-control!
Todd! I will not lie…I find your passion admirable as I share the same passion. I don’t share your ideas, you are a sorely misguided, brain-washed dumb-ass. I don’t hold that against you because I know that it is inherent. I too was raised with blinders, but sir please, rake the bull-shit from your eyes and realize that we are in hell here. I am certainly not proposing that you change your political affiliation, but hear FACTS from every angle before you attack.
Mike,
What are you talking about? What FACTS have I ignored in my posts? What specifically have I stated which indicates I’m ‘brain-washed’?
It requires little effort to call me a dumb-ass Mike, can you be a little more specific? I’m always open to new FACTS, especially those which challenge my own opinions. So which FACTS would you point which demonstrate my blind ignorance?
Mike, it’s not helpful to call Todd a “dumbass.” He understandably does not respond well to name-calling, and I don’t think he’s “dumb” by any means. Getting Todd riled has never been good for this blog. (And if you get that talk show you want, don’t think Todd won’t haunt you there
Todd, you are not “open to new facts.” Any time someone raises a new argument, no matter how strongly it is backed up, you come up with a counter-argument based on spurious “facts,” because you simply cannot help making arguments to defend your viewpoint, no matter how vacuous your stance may be. And everyone here sees that, so defending yourself rhetorically isn’t getting you anywhere. Just thought I’d let you know.
Oh I just read Todd’s comments on stem-cell research. If either I or Pete said Bush or anyone was banning stem-cell research, that was a misstatement. I don’t recall hearing that.
But, holy shit, Todd, is there ANYTHING you won’t fight about? I would have hoped this would be the issue, but I guess not. I’m starting to wonder if you believe anything, or if you’re just in this for the fight. It’s so hard to believe you are a stem-cell protectionist. I think you’re just playing devil’s advocate.
Oh, and deciding what has potential based on what investors value is such a hilarious argument. First of all, it’s illogical — they’re going to invest in what has the most promise for returns, and what is the most efficient for returns. Investing in government-subsidized research would likely be a better move. Second, der, investors have historically been radically wrong. Why not look at the science, rather than the economics, and make your argument on that basis?
Brian,
You are projecting. Your MO has been to link to proclaim any claim you don’t like as disproven with a link to a left wing study!
Your dismissal of medical malpractice as a factor in rising health care costs is just the latest example of your penchant for one sided disingenuous ‘proofs’.
“stem cell protectionist”? Hah! That is priceless!
Are you dishonest or just incapable of comprehending what is written? I’m all for stem cell research, where have I indicated otherwise?
“investors have historically been radically wrong”? Does this have any basis in fact, or is this another claim you are going to support with dubious left wing ’studies’?
I’m so sorry, Todd, you’re right. I should have said “embryo protectionist.” However you feel about embryonic stem cells, you do seem to be protecting them, no? And, yeah, I suspect you’re doing it just for kicks, but of course I can’t get inside your head. It’s just hard to believe anyone could really be as disagreeable as you. (And I think you know what I meant.)
You do know ‘embryonic stem cell research’ is only a subset of ’stem cell research’, don’t you? Is it unreasonable to be concerned with the ethics of creating disposable human life to harvest therapeutic cells?
And lets look at the science. Didn’t I link to the NIH page on stem cells? Didn’t I quote from the Nature article? How familiar are you with the science? Were you aware of iPS stem cell research?
See, I think my posts are making valid points. That you want to dismiss them without addressing the content therein says a great deal about you.
Gee Brian, I though dissent was the highest form of patriotism. Golly, I thought you’d be saluting me by now!
Todd, goto the new blog, and post your opinions about everything mentioned. I think everyone, myself included, thinks that you will disagree with everything and anything that was ever said said about anything and everything. I can’t imagine how someone has a negative thought about everything ever mentioned?? Do you believe in life, Todd? I mean what the fuck, how is it that somebody can argue everything ever brought up by everybody? Theres topics on the new blog that I don’t recall you ever commenting on. I think if anybody on here is in support of something your automatically against it. And when it comes to “dissmissing posts without addressing the content therein them” is exactly what you. You’ve not only argued everything Pete or Brian has mentioned, you’ve blatenly lied on the air, and lied about not lying. You’ve labeled everything said from anyone with a political stance, and I’ve been trying to figure out what political stance you take, and congrates! You’ve come up with a whole new political party. And, I think you fall in the catagory of contravert. Wait! Your from Gainsville so in your favor we can label you a “gainsay” its your own political party, it can be shared with nobody, since theres nobody out there who has absolutly nobody out there who has no feeling or positive atttitude about anything.
Todd, I clearly know there is a difference between kinds of stem cells. And you know that I do, but you can’t help fighting about it and trying to use my own lack of thorough response against me, because you apparently have infinite time to bother everyone. You clearly think there’s a moral difference, which is what I accused you of.
As for the science itself, I’m no expert, and I don’t have any opinion on which form of stem-cell research is optimal. I’m glad you’re a scientist and feel qualified to decide. You have SO MANY areas of expertise, Todd. In the end, I don’t really care, because no, I don’t give a fuck about your embryos compared to actual humans (or animals, for that matter), that are sentient beings. I am sure that, given the obstacles, any scientists who are still pursuing embryonic sources have a reason other than hatred of “unborn children”. Is it your theory they’re pursuing it out of some kind of grudge against embryos? I don’t think superstitions should interfere with progress toward cures for debilitating diseases. My bad.
Oh, and Scott the Trucker: HILARIOUS.
Scott,
Did I do what you are accusing me of doing in this post directed to you? There are many topics bandied about, some of them I’ve not commented upon. Doesn’t Pete’s show intro laud the fact the he encourages different opinions and disagreement? If so, what the fuck is your problem?
As for me lying, I refer you to my prior response to Brian on the matter. My hairy nuggets are yours for the tasting. Brian has been insinuating I’m dishonest from the get go. That looks walks and talks like a dishonest rhetorical tactic I’ve seen in forums and comment sections such as this over the years (mostly from lefty moonbats, right wingnuts have their own dishonest logic).
The weakness of your own position is evident when you resort to attacking me for disagreeing so much. As if it is my fault you guys are wrong about so much! Take some personal responsibility man!
Brian,
Thanks for clearing that up. Your comments on the show and prior to the last few gave me no indication you were making a distinction.
Here’s what I originally said:
Your last sneering post only proves my point.
Your fucking kidding me, hairy nuggets? How about lying about Bush’s war history? How about disagreeing with everything everyone has to say, I disagree with Pete and Brian on topics to, but most of its opinion based, what I have that may be fact based has a source to back it up, get over yourself. Its obvious a Bush has led your state as well, and clearly has you brainwashed like our military.
By the way, I’m not a scientist. I’m a programmer. But guess what? I can read and have access to a dictionary! I read stories like the one in Nature I linked above. More importantly, I seek to understand what I read, which often involves more reading.
I’m comfortable discussing the science which informs my opinions, are you? So far, you’ve only seen fit to attack me personally, with the exception of the literature bluffs you’ve posited, such as the hilariously uni-sourced story you worked on concerning med-mal costs. It seems there is no study confirming your own bias you won’t cite.