The West Memphis Three
Pete had Burk Sauls and Kathy Bakken on Friday’s show to bring attention to The West Memphis Three. An interesting story that could change drastically based on DNA evidence. What did you think of the interview? Did you learn anything? Will you get involved?
A couple things make this case a obvious case of corrupt police. One of the first is on the day of the murders a bloody man was found in a fast food resturant bathroom by the manager who called police. Within eye site of the crime scene. When police arrived the officer (who testified under oath) that she drove threw the drive thru and DID NOT go inside to investigate. Blood samples where taken several days later and LOST according to police testimony at trail. The other thing that bothers me is Jessie with a IQ of 73 was questioned for over 12 hours. No lawyer or parent was there. Amazingly only the last 45 mins was recorded and 11 hours and 15 mins were not.
Another thing was 3 members of the West Memphis Police Drug Task force was being investigated for missing drugs,guns and money from the evidence room. This was a federal investigation.
One of the childrens step father is a convicted felon, a drug informant with the WMPD and his DNA has been found recently on evidence. However none of the 3 convicted have ever had any physical evidence to link them to the crime.
Then what did the jury convict on? There were 12 people who agreed that these people were guilty of the crime.
my feeling John is that they convicted on the community’s desire to have someone pay for these gruesome crimes. It’s my belief that the prosecution misguided and manipulated a group of 12 people who needed someone to pay for it, and because the boys listened to Metallica and heavy metal, and that Damien had ties and was interested in (to exactly what degree I don’t know) Wicca. Which I think a lot of the jurors made the leap to Satanism from. I’m almost willing to believe that these jurors may have been more easily manipulated than the average person not from the local area. That or they, like the prosecution, also knew for a fact that they were guilty, but had little to no evidence, and took the law into their own hands when they voted. Guilty or not, it could probably be argued that they all committed crimes by voting guilty on such little evidence. As Mark mentioned, there was another suspect not investigated, and the samples from that suspect were mysteriously "lost." hmmm… With this much manipulation going on, who knew what other kinds of pressure those jurors could have been under.
I found "Paradise Lost" to be a very neutral presentation of the facts in this case, and saw things that swayed me both directions, but I still haven’t seen any "smoking guns" here. Has anyone else seen any? Pls. let me know. thanks all!!
I agree with Mark completely, but what’s important for people’s mindset during the analysis of a case like this, is to understand and keep seperate what we know, from what we can prove. None of us were there, so really we know nothing. All we are left with is what we can prove. What’s been left out of the interview, is Damien’s mental stability. There is a website that has posted hundreds of pages of records from his treatment at a mental health treatment center in Arkansas. I think that he could have been capable of this crime, when taking into consideration what’s fact about his mental stability and what he was into at the time, but I haven’t seen a smoking gun anywhere that can prove it, there’s no hard evidence. I’ve found holes in both the defence, and the prosecution’s case. No finger prints on the knife, no bloody clothes, no dna, nothing. The only thing I’ve seen that’s even remotely incriminating was the two girl’s testimony that they overheard Echolls talking about killing the 3, and having another selected. That and the fact that some intricate details about the murders were accurate in Jessie’s "confession" and things Damien said to make himself and the others look bad, were the only things that I could find that I could call proof towards their guilt.
To me, whether they did it or not, it’s wasn’t a winnable case when it was presented to a jury over 15 years ago. There’s just no smoking gun here. That or somehow the prosecution knew for a fact that they were guilty, and had now case with which to prove it, then manufactured and manipulated to get the proper result. yah, right. They may very well have done it, i doubt it, but either way there’s reasonable doubt all over this case.
My criminal justice class has been pouring over this case for longer than I can reccount now. We are divided. Trust me when I say this case has prompted many arguments, and came near close to blows between opposing sides. As law enforcement we are taught that our job is to uphold the LAW, not our own ideals. Lady Justice is blindfolded for a reason. This specific case shows us a great deal about our justice system and how far we still have to go to make it the best. I would encourage those who do not understand how or why these three men were convicted to go and inform yourselves. Read the books, watch the movies, search the internet. Take the time to review the evidence yourself. The issue is the fact that they did NOT recieve a fair trail. Reasonable doubt was raised. An immense amount of it really. The jurors, the judge, the court in which it took place…All of it happened in the same place or nearly the same as where the crimes where committed. How can you take 12 people from a community that has just suffered a loss like that, a community that is inherently biased because of their upbringing, a community that does not embrace change or individuality and expect them to be FAIR AND IMPARTIAL. That to me just does not compute. Imagine it’s you. Suffering for almost 15 years now. All the horrible things that happen to people in prison. Ignorace is unexcusable. Americans believe we are above the problems other countries have when it comes to government or our court systems. This case should open up everyones eyes to the corrupt nature of it all. Educate yourselves. Only then can we make things better
Thanks for sharing that, Rebecca. I totally agree with you. But it’s kind of scary that there are criminal justice students who don’t see how badly this case was botched, if that’s what you are saying. Some of your fellow students actually believe the boys are guilty? I guess that’s (prospective) cops for ya…
Alot of people don’t realize the back ground of then 3 men. All three came from extremely poor homes. Echol’s lived in a house with a dirt floor during a portion of his life. None of the men’s immediate family even graduated high school. So they had court appointed lawyers.
John from Cleveland,
Let me tell you about Clay County Arkansas where the jury pool was obtained for MIsskelley’s trail. At the time of the trail less than 700 residents of Clay County had graduated college. 1 in 4 lived below the poverty level. Because of the intense religious background this did not allow the sale of liquor.
I have spent alot of time reading and studing this case and I am 100% convinced they are innocent;however, thats my opinion.
The prosecutor was ordered to turn over all evidence before August 1993 but was still turning over evidence to the defense at the time the trail started in Jan 1994. I do think most will agree they didn’t get a fair trail.
All I want is a fair trail for these men.
Mark, leave you no room for the small possibility that they could have done it? There is no arguement to me that a fair trial was not conducted, but Damien was ridiculously mentally ill and suicidal, and I think much futher into the "cult" religions than he admitted too. Parts of Jessie’s "confession," and details he provided, however coerced were accurate. Why would he go so far as to lie about actually catching and holding Michael Moore, when in fact the murders were probably not even committed where the bodies where found? What about the 2 girls who claimed they overheard Damien bragging about the murders? I didn’t see the defense discredit their testimony that well. I’m definitely leaning more towards their innocence but these things still puzzle me. Can you help?
B.C., you’re forgetting the one important thing about Jessie’s "confession". 12 hours of interrogation of a minor without a lawyer or parent present. The last hour, the actual "confession" was so spoon fed it would never have been admitted as evidence I’m guessing in any major city.
Remember Jessie’s IQ is only 73, being berated by police officers for 12 hours straight, the kid is going to "confess" to anything you want him to.
As for the two girls, maybe they did hear that, but it wouldn’t be the first time a teen bragged about something he actually didn’t do to get attention.
Don’t forget the prosecution’s "star witness", the gentleman who was "an expert on occult". The man pulled more things from his rear then a politician running for office. Now Damien could very well be mentally ill and suicidal, but that doesn’t make him a killer. Suicide and homicide are two completely different things and come from two different emotional states.
thanks Jack,
I know… so much of their case is weak, isn’t it? I’ll admit that I haven’t had the chance to completely review the transcript of Jessie’s confession and I of course will. I’m just so confused by it. Why do you think that he got so creative when he talked about catching and holding Michael Moore there, and Damien and Jason having sex with them when in all likelihood the ditch where the bodies were found is NOT even the killsite!? And also, if they did do it, how come the WMPD wasn’t able to present any blood-covered clothing or evidence of that nature?? This type of thing reiterates my whole point here, innocent or guilty, this case was not winnable!
seems I’ve just come full circle with this conversation Jack, sorry to re-state the same points you’ve responded to. I was short on time when I replied to you. I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said and accept that you believe the entire confession was coerced. I also didn’t mean to suggest that because Damien was mentally ill and suicidal, that he was a killer. It wasn’t presented in Pete’s interview and I think it’s important to keep analysis of this case broad. thanks Jack.
It’s cool BC, but take my advice and watch the two documentaries done on the WM3. It will answer many of your questions. But to answer your questions, the police continually told him what happened to the kids so when he "confessed" he repeated what they told him. When he got something wrong they did the obvious sign of coercion of, don’t you mean this, oh yes, that’s what I meant.
the two documentaries being both parts of "Paradise Lost" those I have seen. Are there others?
All I can say is don’t discount the prejudice and religious influence when it comes to the deep south.
Just a fact whether folks want to admit it or not.
Steve and others before him hit the nail on the head. The only reason these kids were found guilty is because they were different and were interested in "satanic things". I know it is tough for some folks who have never been around folks like that, but they do exist. They do believe that Harry Potter is leading all the children to witchcraft that those who listen to metal will corrupt and brutalize their children and that doesn’t even say what they will do to the family pet.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Horribly enough my prof. is also among those who believe "The Three" are guilty. He admits that things in the case were done wrong, there were lazy incompetent cops invovled, and many other things could have been done so much better, but he also stated today infact that no matter where you go there will be a police investigation that has been screwed up. He says it’s because we are all humans. Frankly I don’t buy that. I think that we should strive for more. I would never except anything but perfection. This is peoples lives, not t.v. To play both sides though there is not a set standard for the education of police officers in America. Every state, city, academy is different. If you do not set a standard of the highest quality for "prospective" cops then I guess you really can’t expect perfection. Better and more education, training in everything from ethics to s.o.p. .. The Japanese train almost to a t as their ancestors the Samari did. Why don’t we expect our police forces to be just as well trained and well rounded? Let me ask, if I’m not to blame the police who did a half-crocked investigation who am I to blame for this disgusting case? Well it is "their" fault. They were lazy, uneducated, crooked, biased, incompetent, and unobjective. Everything the police shouldn’t be. I’ve become addicted to this case. I’ve gotten other invovled. From what I see I’m the minority in my classes. When asked if I would pull another officer over for speeding I said yes. Would I tell on another officer for using their vehicle for personal reasons, I said yes. ….. ect.. Then I was told I’d probably get a blanket party. My response was so what. In my heart I know I can do this job and do it right. I know I was born to do this. I’m good at it. I believe in something perhaps that isn’t really there anymore, but I still hold myself to a higher standard than I think most do. I expect others to be able to rise to my level and serve as they are suppose to. So when I see police like those of West Memphis, Arkansas completely destroy three mens lives ofcourse I’m outraged. I’m so pissed that something like this could happen here. If I were going to charge someone with something like capital murder I would want to make dang sure it was the right somebody.
Kind of off topic, but I constantly see officers running lights (well they turn their lights on for the second they go through it)… I see others travelling code 1 on the highways going 10 over the limit.
Have the police simply become a gang that is above the law?
Unfortunetly John there are alot of crooked police. Their are also alot of excellent police. For years I was a firm believer in the death penalty but now I am not. Since so many people have been found to be innocent thanks to dna I can’t support the ultimate punishment. Recently in both NC and Va men have been released after serving over 20 years .
Hopefully the case with the WM3 will get out of state courts. With the original trail judge hearing appeals he would never over rule a trail he heard.
agreed Mark, it’s near criminal to me that he hasn’t recused himself, especially in a case like this one where the need for alternate review is so obvious.