Bring It…
So I pissed a lot of people off today when I evidently advocated “class warfare” against the rich. Callers came out of the woodwork, essentially to defend the rich, and of course they got priority over people who would stand with Pete or me, since that’s the way my little bro runs his show (and it’s why you listen)…
Anyway, I’m not sorry for what I said. (Okay, I’m sorry for saying Grant is lazy and implied he is an avid beachgoer. He may work hard for his “in excess of $180,000″, and he may burn easily. I just got pissed when he said I shouldn’t get emotional about not having much to show at the end of the day for all the work I do.)
We know that people call into talk shows and say whatever they think helps their argument, with little regard for the truth. Pete was on the ball today and fired back pretty good, but the onslaught continued. I’m sick of hearing about how the poor are stealing from the rich. I do think we need a class war in this country, but raising taxes on the rich isn’t good enough. Those who work for a living are sick of paying rent to and getting paltry wages from the ownership class. We can’t save enough to save, let alone to invest. Too many Americans can’t keep up — never mind get ahead — but we’re forced to sit back and watch the government give away our tax money to the investor class so they can gamble with it.
So now’s your chance to go off on me.
I definitely agree with the points that you were making or trying to make. Unfortunately, today’s show was far too much of a shout-fest to make it worth listening to. Usually, you and Pete manage to stay above all that. Today, not so much, resulting in diluting the effect of your words.
That’s unfortunate, as it really needed to be heard. I have far, far too many relatives in the U.S. who insist on voting against their own and their families’ best interests, in favor of the rich. I know why they do it … it just frustrates the hell out of me.
B.C. Weasel Reply:
October 29th, 2008 at 12:20 am
well said Carlo.
Brian:
“Those who work for a living are sick of paying rent to and getting paltry wages from the ownership class. We can’t save enough to save, let alone to invest. Too many Americans can’t keep up — never mind get ahead — but we’re forced to sit back and watch the government give away our tax money to the investor class so they can gamble with it.”
How is allowing people to keep what they make “giving away” your money?
Carlo from Canada Reply:
October 27th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, but there definitely seems to be a severe lack of a plan for coming up with that $750 Billion (and more) that will be going to the failing financial institutions (and car companies, etc.). If you don’t think that that money will eventually (not necessarily right away) come from taxes and other ways the gov’t has to get your money, I think that you’re fooling yourself …
Grant in N.O. Reply:
October 27th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Brian, I took no offense and I did not mean that you should be A’OK with the bailout, the current state of rich vs. poor, or how much you have left to save or invest or anything else.
I would venture to say I have been poorer in my life than just about anyone you know (read the email I send Pete if you like) but then again I’m now wealthier than most of the people you probably know now.
The only point I was making is that we seem to be able to be un-emotional about abortion for example. Here is arguably a life (at least it would be if allowed to develop) but we are level headed enough to say “hey that’s a woman’s body we can’t make that choice.”
Yet we can’t look at the economy and say to ourselves “ok now no matter what this isn’t going to be fair to everyone, let’s not reduce this into evil beach going rich people vs. poor Tiny Tim. Rather than start “feeling” and getting emotional let’s look at facts and math and do the right thing.
No matter how you slice it the right thing to do when dealing with a mass market sell off when everyone is scared to death of the stock market is to reduce the reward and increase the risk of buying into it.
That is what someone who is emotional about this dilemma would do rather than realizing we need people to invest again and that goes from the rich beachgoers all the way down to Brian and Pete.
Big Brother Reply:
October 27th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
But Grant, don’t you realize I’m emotional because after working for my money, I see it get stolen from me? Really, it’s other people more than me, since I’m self-employed. But since I don’t waste or gamble my money, I do get “emotional” when I see that people who did just that are getting bailed out, and I’m going to have to pick up the tab.
But in any case, raising capital gains tax does not increase the risk of investment. Still, no one has demonstrated that argument. If you lose, you don’t pay anything. Yes, it decreases the reward, but what’s your alternative? You’re going to put your money in your mattress (and watch it lose value)? You’re going to put it in a savings account (and pay taxes on the interest)?
As for beachgoers vs. Tiny Tim, the problem is, there are beachgoing fat cats, and there are people in abject poverty who work hard and can’t feed their families. I don’t want to reduce he whole economy to that, but why not start there? Why not say, okay, NO CHILD GOES HUNGRY, PERIOD, and make sure that’s the case. And why not also say, no more lazy slobs living off inheritences or purely off capital gains. You want money, WORK for it?
Yeah, the world isn’t fair, but if our country is anything but total shit, we’ll rise above that level of utter moral bankruptcy and say: no more free rides, no more starving kids. Then we’ll go from there…
Big Brother Reply:
October 27th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Oh, and one more thing: was it you that was talking about municipal bonds? I would LOVE if more people invested in municipal bonds. That’s what makes communities better places to live. It creates jobs. It’s great for infrastructure. Fuck capitalists and their profit margins, municipal bonds are a way better investment if we care about anything other than just the investor (which, I know, we’re not supposed to). And as you noted, because they’re stable, they’re pretty damn good for the investor, too.
Big Brother Reply:
October 27th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Snarky I was talking about the bailout, not tax cuts.
I missed this part of the show, and I wish I would have caught it. I firmly believe it’s time to “redistribute the wealth.” The wealth of the middle class has been almost completely redistributed to the very upper class, and it’s time we got our money back. The first time the stock market crashed under Bush some of us lost over $100,000 in our 401 K’s. This time, we almost made it back to square one, and it happens again. How can anyone retire when they keep taking hits like that?
The middle class had a lot bigger share of the pie in America prior to Reagan and the beginning of Republican policies to loot the treasury and our savings, and to ship many of our best jobs overseas. These policies only benefit the very elite of the upper class, and it’s starting to leave the bottom 60% of us with less and less. I’m tired of being trickled down on.
My only concern is dealing with income taxes only. A large percentage of the population (according to one website up to 40%) of wage earners actually draw more from the government than they put in. These are the same people who claim that they need more breaks. If they are already paying less than they get back, what breaks can they get now?
More “earned income credits” and “child tax credits”? I am just curious what breaks can be given at this point.
Big Brother Reply:
October 28th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I need to figure out how to become part of that 40% who get more from the government than they pay in income taxes. Somehow, being in the 2nd lowest tax bracket, and being well inside the bottom 40% of income earners, I haven’t managed. I get mortgage-interest deductions, and I take everything else I can grab. Almost makes you wonder if that “one website” you read might have been full of shit. Maybe you’re being lied to. I’ll look into that soon.
And if we’re really upset about tax avoidance, maybe we should not be worried about the poorest Americans, but the richest? For instance:
Most Corporations Pay No Income Taxes Some Years
So much for US corporations paying the highest taxes in the world. Just another lie.
John from Cleveland Reply:
November 4th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Sorry for getting back to this late:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/22652.html
“Bottom 50% pay 3.07% of the income taxes to the country”
http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/
Dated information, admittedly. Shows more percentages
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=1545&type=0
“Effective Individual Income Tax Rate” for the bottom 60% is 2.3% combined
Now I am not saying that these people don’t need help, I am just saying that they don’t pay much into FEDERAL income taxes and therefore shouldn’t expect a remarkable break in taxes. That is, unless they find a way to give more of these “earned income credits” and “child credits” so people who had $400 withheld from their checks all year get a $1000 refund.
Big Brother Reply:
November 4th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
I personally have never suggested a tax break, let alone any kind of credit, for the vast majority of Americans. I think once you are above a realistic poverty level, it should be your responsibility to contribute something. But as I’ve said all along, I’m much more concerned about how much money hard-working people take home. If I spend everything I make on taxes and necessities, and have no discretionary income for savings/investment (or even a vacation), then the small portion I pay in federal income taxes hurts me much more than a comparatively huge portion hurts someone wealthy. Fairness should not be judged by percentages of gross income, but by the actual hardship it causes. Rich people are caused zero hardship by high taxes, whereas poor people are relatively caused significant hardship by relatively minuscule taxes.
All that said, I guess I need to use an accountant for the first time this year, because as I’ve mentioned, I’m in the second lowest tax bracket and yet I pay significant federal income taxes every year, even after claiming ever significant thing I can. I’m not fitting in on the charts you linked to, that’s for sure. Maybe I need to crank out a couple kids or something…
-brian